From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Fri Mar 1 07:15:51 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 037B356F78; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:15:50 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.29]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE2F056F78; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:15:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from adsl-63-201-90-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net ([63.201.90.158]) by mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GSA00LV0WF405@mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net>; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:30:40 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 06:21:26 -0800 (PST) From: Eugene Eric Kim Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] list membership X-X-Sender: To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org, ba-ohs-talk@bootstrap.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Some of you have attempted to send e-mail to one or both of our lists -- ba-unrev-talk and ba-ohs-talk -- and have not been successful. The reason is that you must be subscribed to the list in order for the e-mail to go through. This feature is in place as an anti-spam mechanism. If you often use multiple e-mail addresses, you must make sure that you send contributions to the list using the address that is subscribed to that list. For instance, if you use two e-mail addresses -- joe@schmoe.com and joe@foobar.com -- and the first e-mail address is subscribed to ba-unrev-talk, then only mail coming from that address will go through. Majordomo will reject mail from the latter address. Just wanted to let you all know. Thanks. -Eugene -- +=== Eugene Eric Kim ===== eekim@eekim.com ===== http://www.eekim.com/ ===+ | "Writer's block is a fancy term made up by whiners so they | +===== can have an excuse to drink alcohol." --Steve Martin ===========+ From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Fri Mar 1 09:29:43 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 0693556F79; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:29:42 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC27656F78 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:29:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from home ([63.197.14.24]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with SMTP id <0GSB00DGG2M89E@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:44:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:44:35 -0800 From: John Maloney Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] KM Cluster Bulletin To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org This bulletin is an update and invitation to the San Francisco Bay Area and Silicon Valley Knowledge Management (KM) Cluster Spring 2002 Event on Thursday, March 28, 2002 (new date) in downtown San Francisco. http://kmcluster.com The KM Cluster Spring 2002 Theme is "Collaborative Knowledge Networks." Pre-registration is required. Secure, on-line eRegistration is now open: https://www.kmcluster.com/secureorderform.htm Agenda Highlights ***************** The following are recent additions to the KM Cluster Spring 2002 Agenda: - Robin Athey and Adriaan Jooste of Deloitte Research will present recent research findings on "Collaborative Knowledge Networks." http://www.kmcluster.com/CKN.pdf - David Gilmour, president and CEO of Tacit Knowledge Systems will lead an interactive session on "Expertise Automation for the Enterprise." http://www.tacit.com - Kevin Kail of Vitria Technology, Inc., (Nasdaq: VITR) will discuss "Vocabulary-based Approaches to B2B Collaboration." http://vcml.net/ - Todd Ray of Groove Networks will describe the "The Benefits of Decentralized Collaboration" to collaborative knowledge networks. http://www.groove.net The KM Cluster is thrilled to be joined by such talented thought leaders, professionals and architects. Collaborative Knowledge Networks ******************************** Open, secure trans-enterprise collaboration maximizes the sharing, conversion, creation and fluid (re)use of the tacit, explicit and procedural knowledge required to improve performance and competitiveness. Lasting, measurable benefits of collaborative knowledge networks include: - Shorter product development cycles, improved design, faster innovation - More productive sales processes, faster closes, improved quote-to-cash - Accelerated time-to-performance for critical knowledge-based offerings - Expanded eBusiness archetypes and sharply improved value chain teamwork Deployments of new collaborative models, technology and organizations are often challenged. Almost always, the short-term gains are exaggerated and the long-term benefits are underestimated. The Spring 2002 KM Cluster will take a hard look at what works today and what is on the near horizon for collaborative knowledge networks. Implementation of effective organizational foundations and synergistic technologies will also be examined. The goal is to attain a far deeper comprehension of the managerial and economic logic of collaborative knowledge networks. KM Cluster Community Collaboration ********************************** The Spring 2002 KM Cluster community uses Groove 1.3 for collaboration. Features include file sharing, discussion, calendar and chat. Spring 2002 content is available now. For an invitation to the "KM Cluster Spring 2002" Shared Space, please send a message to contact "KMCluster" from Groove. If you don't have Groove, you can download it from http://www.groove.net/downloads/groove. It's free, elegant and powerful. Spring 2002 Logistics and Venue ******************************* The Spring 2002 KM Cluster gathering will be held Thursday, March 28, 2002. The location is the San Francisco State University Downtown Campus Conference Center, Room 304, 3rd Floor, 425 Market Street @ Fremont Street, San Francisco, CA. The event will be held from 8:30am-5:00pm. http://www.sfaug.org/meetings/SFSUdirections.html Please forward this invitation to colleagues concerned with knowledge management, collaboration, business communities and elearning. To eRegister visit: https://www.kmcluster.com/secureorderform.htm There is a small fee to cover logistical expenses. Related KM Cluster Events ************************* The KM Cluster is pleased to recommend the following workshop, "Improving Business Performance - A Systems Thinking Approach" March 18, 19, 20, 2002, UC Berkeley, Berkeley, California. This hands-on workshop equips you with a Systems Thinking framework, language, method and tools for improving the performance of your organization. It is an excellent follow-on to the Winter 2001 KM Cluster, "Simulation and KM." http://www.hps-inc.com/Business/ImpBusPerformance.htm The KM Cluster is a co-sponsor of "Intranet Content Management: Optimize Corporate Performance and Facilitate Knowledge Sharing" April 9,10,11, 2002 at the Crown Plaza Hotel, San Francisco, California. Mention KM Cluster and receive a 10% discount on your registration. http://www.cmfocus.com/kmcluster.html See you March 28th! Most sincerely, John John Maloney www.kmcluster.com jmaloney@kmcluster.com IM: jheuristic From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Fri Mar 1 12:56:26 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 4C48D56F82; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:56:26 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF99356F7C for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:56:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from ha1sca-mail1.SFBay.Sun.COM ([129.145.155.51]) by mercury.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17704 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:11:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from sun.com (d-usca14-129-126 [129.145.129.126]) by ha1sca-mail1.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id g21LBEW14286 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:11:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3C7FEE72.B87DE221@sun.com> Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:11:14 -0800 From: Eric Armstrong X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Re: [ba-ohs-talk] A Need for Lawyers References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Wah!! That whole post was supposed to go to unrev. I even caught the first one and changed the address. How did it wind up on ohs? Eugene Eric Kim wrote: > It looks like Eric intended this message to go to ba-unrev-talk (where it > belongs), but he used the ba-ohs-talk address instead. Eric, please > correct this in your address book, and folks, please continue campaigning > for Eric on ba-unrev-talk rather than on this list. Thanks. > > -Eugene > > -- > +=== Eugene Eric Kim ===== eekim@eekim.com ===== http://www.eekim.com/ ===+ > | "Writer's block is a fancy term made up by whiners so they | > +===== can have an excuse to drink alcohol." --Steve Martin ===========+ From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Fri Mar 1 14:07:55 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id C7BC356F82; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:07:54 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 529DA56F7A for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:07:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from ha1sca-mail1.SFBay.Sun.COM ([129.145.155.51]) by mercury.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01210 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:22:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from sun.com (d-usca14-129-126 [129.145.129.126]) by ha1sca-mail1.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id g21MMhW28601 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:22:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3C7FFF33.B0FB2941@sun.com> Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:22:43 -0800 From: Eric Armstrong X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Re: [ba-ohs-talk] Traffic References: <3C7EC462.FD6C9DFB@sun.com> <3C7EEDFB.E8442B88@sympatico.ca> <3C7EF982.F4FA5245@sun.com> <3C7F0056.E7837485@sun.com> <3C7F0BB4.711FF1E2@attglobal.net> <3C7FEC84.EBE2AA64@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Darn it. THIS list is where the message was *suppose* to go.... Eric Armstrong wrote: > Rod Welch wrote: > > > Just another thought, you will have my vote for all the reasons in > > your exegesis, if you will expand your plank to fix the traffic mess. > > There has to be a million hours wasted everyday just getting to work > > and home. Has anyone noticed how people are willing to work hard, > > getting up earlier and earlier and getting home later and later, but > > working smarter is a sore subject? > > Well, that raises another issue entirely. Car pool lanes. > > I watch the cars in the car pool lane. When I see 3 suits in the car, > I know they're on their way to or from the airport. They would only > have had one car anyway. > > Then I see a gardening truck with a a couple of workers. They're > on business, too. > > Then I see a woman and her 6-year old kid. Tell me again how much > gasoline we're saving because they're not riding in separate cars. > > And there are folks who look like they may be married. Odds are > good they would be car pooling anyway. > > Finally, there are environmentally aware, conscietious people who > car pool out of social concern -- who would be carpooling whether > or not there was a car pool lane. > > After we subtract all of those, we have the *real* number of > multiple-occupancy cars that otherwise would have been single > occupancy. > > In other words, the question is not, "How many cars are there in the > car pool lane". The question is, "How many multiple occupancy cars > are there on the road that were induced to do so by the existence of > a car pool lane"? > > These thoughts originally arose when I noticed that within 15 minutes > of the end of the car pool hours, the traffic magically begins to flow > easily, and you can actually get where you're going. Now, either > everyone has timed things SO well that they are all pulling off the > road right at that time. Or, more likely the car pool lane is costing us > more than it buys us. > > It occurs to me that perhaps the traffic planners did a damn good job > of predicting traffic volume and building the roads that would be > needed -- but then the number of lanes was reduced to 3/4 or 2/3 > by fiat, with the attendant congestion. > > Now, that artificial traffic jam construction may actually be a *good* > thing, in some ways. By creating a problem early, it has put pressure > on population growth, and has lead to a search for alternatives (like > work at home) sooner than would otherwise have been necessary. > > So maybe we're ahead of the game. But I'm not sure, because when > I look at all those gas guzzlers creeping along in long lines, running at > the most inefficient possible speed and polluting the air with every > inch they travel, I wonder if the cost we're paying is too high. From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Sat Mar 2 08:20:19 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 30FA556F7B; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:20:19 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.176]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9162256F79 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:20:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from modem-791.charmander.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.135.77.23] helo=vaio) by cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16hCTR-0005EC-00 for ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:35:05 +0000 Message-ID: <009e01c1c208$12c03d80$d6a9193e@vaio> From: "Peter Jones" To: References: <3C7EC462.FD6C9DFB@sun.com> <3C7EEDFB.E8442B88@sympatico.ca> <3C7EF982.F4FA5245@sun.com> <3C7F0056.E7837485@sun.com> <3C7F0BB4.711FF1E2@attglobal.net> <3C7F5682.4030102@open.ac.uk> <3C7F8EE1.89D2D6B4@attglobal.net> Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Re: [ba-ohs-talk] Eric Running for Office Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:24:57 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Yes, it has rail, but it's a long tunnel under a sea lane, so you can't drive cars down there because everyone would asphyxiate. And you can ventilate mid-channel without a risk to shipping (ships don't float in aerated water). So they put the cars on the _electric_ train. Of course, you wouldn't need to do that if you had an electric car. What would be a great interim measure is a car with a plug-and-play engine set. Electric for anything under 100 miles. Petrol assisted if your batteries go flat. Battery set swaps at energy stations so you don't have to wait for recharge - you just plug and go. I saw in the news that Milan, Italy, is banning petrol cars inside the city limits in 2004. I certainly hope vested interests don't overturn that one, and that the sentiment spreads. -- Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Welch" To: Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 2:23 PM Subject: [ba-ohs-talk] Eric Running for Office > Murray, > > Fear not, Eric would be an enlightened candidate with correct views. > The tunnel under the Channel has a rail, so by all means "Lets rail." > > Rod > > ************ > > Murray Altheim wrote: > > > > Rod Welch wrote: > > > > [...] > > > How about a couple of tunnels between SF and the North Bay, and one to > > > the East Bay, like Bechtel constructed between France and England? > > > > This one has me angry. They've just started building the new Bay > > Bridge (between Oakland and San Francisco, for those not familiar > > with the area), and the planners voted down any proposal to add > > a center lane that would have been a train track. It seems absolute > > stupidity to build a *new* bridge and not have a track to enable > > mass transit. This isn't 1950. Whoever is responsible for this > > decision should be voted out of office and *then* put in a pillory. > > Stupidity should be painful (this was the bumper sticker on my car, > > before I sold it to move to the UK). > > > > Murray > > > > ...................................................................... > > Murray Altheim > > Knowledge Media Institute > > The Open University, Milton Keynes, Bucks, MK7 6AA, UK > > > > In the evening > > The rice leaves in the garden > > Rustle in the autumn wind > > That blows through my reed hut. -- Minamoto no Tsunenobu > From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Sat Mar 2 17:03:11 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 519DC56F7D; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:03:11 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts9.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.53]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4B3C56F7B for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:03:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.228.165.166]) by tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020303011755.RECA11580.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@sympatico.ca> for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:17:55 -0500 Message-ID: <3C817A0D.FC2A019@sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:19:09 -0500 From: Henry K van Eyken X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] "Upcoming events" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org The Fleabyte site has begun to include announcements of upcoming events and calls for papers, &c. Quick browsing is facilitated with the click-step feature. Hope this will turn out to be a useful, one-stop page. Please, let me know of relevant events that ought to be posted there. Henry From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Sat Mar 2 17:58:51 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 82CDD56F82; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:58:50 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3444956F7D for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:58:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from home ([63.197.14.24]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with SMTP id <0GSD0076ZKUQXI@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:13:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:13:43 -0800 From: John Maloney Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Mess Transit In-reply-to: <009e01c1c208$12c03d80$d6a9193e@vaio> To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Greetings, Thanks for all the excellent posts. Very useful material, links and commentary on collaboration and augmentation. This post is in response to the remarks on car pool lanes and mass transit, in the context of ba-unrev-talk. First, I reject the notion that car pool lanes do not serve their constituencies. In fact, they are extremely effective! First, anyone that thinks the car pool lanes serve the motoring public, is sadly mistaken. Car pool lanes serve the "automobile-industrial complex," plain and simple. The automobile companies, their lobbyist, the insurance industry, the oil companies, justice systems, construction firms, and the myriad other organization that feed this avaricious monster are extremely well-served with any strategy, like the dubious car pool lanes, that increases their growth. Jack Nassar noted that for every $1 spent on a new auto, $7-10 are spent on services - insurance, fuel, maintenance, etc. This is big, very big business, so watch what you say! In the early 1920s, guess who systematically and deliberately dismantled the Philadelphia trolley system? Yep, none other that 'General' Motors. To wit, " What's good for the country is good for General Motors, and vice versa." - Charles Wilson (1890-1961), head of GM The automobile + insurance + big oil lobbies and their craven supplicants have a pathological aversion to mass transit. In the pre-auto lobby 1860's the Union Railroad and Pacific Railroad spanned a continent in 3 YEARS! Today, in the SF Bay Area, with florid auto lobbyists, it has taken "BART" more than 30 to get to the airport! (Still not there yet, of course.) That was only after major concessions to build MASSIVE car parking complexes, in fact, the largest US public works project in the last 25 years. Go figure. Thus, anything that keeps you in the driver's seat is welcome. For example, in other countries they have implemented odd/even days to ameliorate traffic congestion. Do you think for one second the automobile-industrial complex would stand for idling half their cash cow? No way brother! Hmmn, then how to assuage the do-gooders? Ah-ha! Car pool lanes will do the trick. What does all this have to do with ba-unrev-talk? It is a classic problem that we've all faced: Structural or technology changes do NOT solve cultural, political, economic or social issues. Never have, never will. Look at all the failed/challenged deployments of collaborative or augmentation processes and technologies, for example. The typical Silicon Valley BWM aficionado would rather spend hours idling alone on the 101 corridor, than dare join the great unwashed and step onto terrestrial public transit systems. This is a profound cultural barrier to sustainable transit. Add to this the intractable economic/political "Iron Curtain" of automobile-industrial domination, and you have the current mess. Finally, now that my axe is sufficiently ground, there are many steps that can be taken to move forward. One, relevant to ba-unrev-talk, is deliberate action to advance progressive work models. The vast cubicle farms filled with commuting automata, are a staple of perceived managerial achievement. Adoption of new means of work and interaction have been slower than erosion because of hierarchy and empire. Hopefully, ba-unrev-talk will help accelerate the move from the mass centralization of work to a more effective and sustainable distributed model. Cheers, -jtm -----Original Message----- From: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org [mailto:owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org]On Behalf Of Peter Jones Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 8:25 AM To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Re: [ba-ohs-talk] Eric Running for Office Yes, it has rail, but it's a long tunnel under a sea lane, so you can't drive cars down there because everyone would asphyxiate. And you can ventilate mid-channel without a risk to shipping (ships don't float in aerated water). So they put the cars on the _electric_ train. Of course, you wouldn't need to do that if you had an electric car. From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Sun Mar 3 11:38:04 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 4FF6156F84; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:38:04 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from imailg3.svr.pol.co.uk (imailg3.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.181]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8AA756F82 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:38:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from modem-1133.tailslide.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.25.224.109] helo=vaio) by imailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16hc2P-0003HI-00 for ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:52:54 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c1c2ec$debbbb00$6de0193e@vaio> From: "Peter Jones" To: References: Subject: Electric Bikes WAS: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Mess Transit Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:51:53 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org http://www.electric-bikes.com/others.htm Note some of the developers names in there. Ford, Lee Iococca,... Bigger machines http://www.electric-bikes.com/motorcys.htm Most offer 25-40 mile range on one charge at a speed of 40mph. Not bad for developments in their infancy. -- Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Maloney" To: Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 2:13 AM Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Mess Transit > > Greetings, > > Thanks for all the excellent posts. Very useful material, links and > commentary on collaboration and augmentation. > > This post is in response to the remarks on car pool lanes and mass transit, > in the context of ba-unrev-talk. > > First, I reject the notion that car pool lanes do not serve their > constituencies. In fact, they are extremely effective! > > First, anyone that thinks the car pool lanes serve the motoring public, is > sadly mistaken. > > Car pool lanes serve the "automobile-industrial complex," plain and simple. > > The automobile companies, their lobbyist, the insurance industry, the oil > companies, justice systems, construction firms, and the myriad other > organization that feed this avaricious monster are extremely well-served > with any strategy, like the dubious car pool lanes, that increases their > growth. > > Jack Nassar noted that for every $1 spent on a new auto, $7-10 are spent on > services - insurance, fuel, maintenance, etc. This is big, very big > business, so watch what you say! > > In the early 1920s, guess who systematically and deliberately dismantled the > Philadelphia trolley system? Yep, none other that 'General' Motors. > > To wit, " What's good for the country is good for General Motors, and vice > versa." - Charles Wilson (1890-1961), head of GM > > The automobile + insurance + big oil lobbies and their craven supplicants > have a pathological aversion to mass transit. > > In the pre-auto lobby 1860's the Union Railroad and Pacific Railroad spanned > a continent in 3 YEARS! > > Today, in the SF Bay Area, with florid auto lobbyists, it has taken "BART" > more than 30 to get to the airport! (Still not there yet, of course.) That > was only after major concessions to build MASSIVE car parking complexes, in > fact, the largest US public works project in the last 25 years. Go figure. > > Thus, anything that keeps you in the driver's seat is welcome. > > For example, in other countries they have implemented odd/even days to > ameliorate traffic congestion. Do you think for one second the > automobile-industrial complex would stand for idling half their cash cow? No > way brother! Hmmn, then how to assuage the do-gooders? Ah-ha! Car pool lanes > will do the trick. > > What does all this have to do with ba-unrev-talk? It is a classic problem > that we've all faced: > > Structural or technology changes do NOT solve cultural, political, economic > or social issues. Never have, never will. Look at all the failed/challenged > deployments of collaborative or augmentation processes and technologies, for > example. > > The typical Silicon Valley BWM aficionado would rather spend hours idling > alone on the 101 corridor, than dare join the great unwashed and step onto > terrestrial public transit systems. This is a profound cultural barrier to > sustainable transit. Add to this the intractable economic/political "Iron > Curtain" of automobile-industrial domination, and you have the current mess. > > Finally, now that my axe is sufficiently ground, there are many steps that > can be taken to move forward. One, relevant to ba-unrev-talk, is deliberate > action to advance progressive work models. The vast cubicle farms filled > with commuting automata, are a staple of perceived managerial achievement. > Adoption of new means of work and interaction have been slower than erosion > because of hierarchy and empire. Hopefully, ba-unrev-talk will help > accelerate the move from the mass centralization of work to a more effective > and sustainable distributed model. > > Cheers, > > -jtm > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org > [mailto:owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org]On Behalf Of Peter Jones > Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 8:25 AM > To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org > Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Re: [ba-ohs-talk] Eric Running for Office > > > Yes, it has rail, but it's a long tunnel under a sea lane, so you can't > drive cars down there because everyone would asphyxiate. > And you can ventilate mid-channel without a risk to shipping (ships > don't float in aerated water). > So they put the cars on the _electric_ train. > Of course, you wouldn't need to do that if you had an electric car. > > From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Sun Mar 3 18:31:06 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 2E56156F7A; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:31:06 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from patan.sun.com (patan.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A33A956F78 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:31:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ha1sca-mail1.SFBay.Sun.COM ([129.145.155.51]) by patan.sun.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08000 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:45:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from sun.com (d-usca14-129-126 [129.145.129.126]) by ha1sca-mail1.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id g242jvW06160 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:45:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3C82DFE5.8521934E@sun.com> Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 18:45:57 -0800 From: Eric Armstrong X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: Re: Electric Bikes WAS: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Mess Transit References: <000c01c1c2ec$debbbb00$6de0193e@vaio> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Peter Jones wrote: > http://www.electric-bikes.com/others.htm > Note some of the developers names in there. Ford, Lee Iococca,... > > Bigger machines > http://www.electric-bikes.com/motorcys.htm > > Most offer 25-40 mile range on one charge at a speed of 40mph. > Not bad for developments in their infancy. Oh, Man. That Denali Pro electric dirt bike looks AWESOME. Used to wish I could have something like that. Talk about COOL... From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Sun Mar 3 18:32:49 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 2A2D856F7C; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:32:49 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from patan.sun.com (patan.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A11A056F7A for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:32:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from ha1sca-mail1.SFBay.Sun.COM ([129.145.155.51]) by patan.sun.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08357 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:47:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from sun.com (d-usca14-129-126 [129.145.129.126]) by ha1sca-mail1.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id g242leW06249 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:47:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3C82E04C.7A84F2BB@sun.com> Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 18:47:40 -0800 From: Eric Armstrong X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: Re: Electric Bikes WAS: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Mess Transit References: <000c01c1c2ec$debbbb00$6de0193e@vaio> <3C82DFE5.8521934E@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Eric Armstrong wrote: > Peter Jones wrote: > > > http://www.electric-bikes.com/others.htm > > Note some of the developers names in there. Ford, Lee Iococca,... > > > > Bigger machines > > http://www.electric-bikes.com/motorcys.htm > > > > Most offer 25-40 mile range on one charge at a speed of 40mph. > > Not bad for developments in their infancy. > > Oh, Man. That Denali Pro electric dirt bike looks AWESOME. > Used to wish I could have something like that. > Talk about COOL... Gack. Have to take it back. Just read this: Run Time: 15 minutes to 2 hours based on usage You mean, if I wind it out I get to ride for all of 15 MINUTES??? Not a whole lot of thrills there. And only $4,000 for the privilege. Someone is dreaming.... From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Mar 4 11:10:08 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 4C00056F86; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:10:08 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from mail11.svr.pol.co.uk (mail11.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.23]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EFC756F7C for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:10:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from modem-1122.bulbasaur.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.135.51.98] helo=vaio) by mail11.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16hy4u-0005KX-00 for ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:24:56 +0000 Message-ID: <001f01c1c3b2$212125a0$623387d9@vaio> From: "Peter Jones" To: References: <000c01c1c2ec$debbbb00$6de0193e@vaio> <3C82DFE5.8521934E@sun.com> <3C82E04C.7A84F2BB@sun.com> Subject: Re: Electric Bikes WAS: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Mess Transit Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:19:44 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org I would hazard a guess that's why Ford and Iococca look to be playing it smart and sticking to assisted bicycles while they figure out better battery technology. They might be able to sell the bicycles now. One of the best motorbikes in there, the Lectra BV42, seems to have disappeared through lack of demand. Early days yet. -- Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Armstrong" To: Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 2:47 AM Subject: Re: Electric Bikes WAS: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Mess Transit > Eric Armstrong wrote: > > > Peter Jones wrote: > > > > > http://www.electric-bikes.com/others.htm > > > Note some of the developers names in there. Ford, Lee Iococca,... > > > > > > Bigger machines > > > http://www.electric-bikes.com/motorcys.htm > > > > > > Most offer 25-40 mile range on one charge at a speed of 40mph. > > > Not bad for developments in their infancy. > > > > Oh, Man. That Denali Pro electric dirt bike looks AWESOME. > > Used to wish I could have something like that. > > Talk about COOL... > > Gack. Have to take it back. Just read this: > Run Time: 15 minutes to 2 hours based on usage > > You mean, if I wind it out I get to ride for all of 15 MINUTES??? > Not a whole lot of thrills there. And only $4,000 for the > privilege. Someone is dreaming.... > > > > From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Mar 4 11:10:15 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 683A156F86; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:10:15 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from mail11.svr.pol.co.uk (mail11.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.23]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 492D356F85 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:10:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from modem-1122.bulbasaur.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.135.51.98] helo=vaio) by mail11.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16hy4v-0005KX-00 for ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:24:58 +0000 Message-ID: <002001c1c3b2$2202fa20$623387d9@vaio> From: "Peter Jones" To: References: <3C6E57EF.5940EFC1@sympatico.ca> <3C812F53.E7D65E5C@netzero.net> <3C82D825.1D84F907@sympatico.ca> Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Re: [ba-ohs-talk] OHS & the "now" enterprises, incl. CITRIS Kickoff Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:23:40 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Henry van Eyken wrote: > Somehow, it seems to me, if we want a viable democracy, we need a citizenship more attuned to > accellerating change, which probably (as far as I can see) entails a digitally literate citizenry that > knows how to get and evaluate information of social relevance, do so at a fast clip, and is capable of > meaningfully contributing to a communal decision-making process. Let's say that we empower the people with computers and somehow hook that more directly into the democratic process. Thus far, in business, the Internet has had a reputation for brutally removing the middlemen. So it must be asked, just what are the likely effects of this move upon the legislative process, and upon the present notion of delegation of power to an elected representative executive? Typically laws get enacted to shore up moral holes in the range of society's activities. Either they are lobbied for, or they arise from novel situations requiring novel litigation. The representative executive raise, debate, tailor, and then vote in or vote out new law. Note that the lobbies are currently representatives too, and some might say there's a bias towards rich lobbies having more influence, but that depends on the moral prudence of the executive. So we are looking at a potentially radical shift in the directness with which the executive are lobbied - and pushing that to an extreme, perhaps the populace simply _becomes_ the executive in the future. And we are looking at a whole new way of lobbying, wherein that activity is again made more direct missing out the representative middlemen and a lot of dispute. Perhaps representation to the executive then becomes more proportional to the desires of the populace as a whole, *assuming the removal of the majority principle and having all votes count.* And maybe making law becomes a matter of statistical satisfaction. But that's assuming that the majority of the populace have sound judgement. And there are also problems with overcoming voting apathy. So it seems to me that the system would still require debate of issues by the sagacious, but the possibility of a more transparent democratic process is really there. In short, it might result in dramatic institutional and constitutional reform, and the only way to steer the populace after the mechanism was in place would be through the (infotainment multi-)media. -- Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry K van Eyken" To: Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 2:12 AM Subject: Re: [ba-ohs-talk] OHS & the "now" enterprises, incl. CITRIS Kickoff > After spending some time with material referenced in John's post, I turned to the Harrow Technology > Report. As you may know, I have a long-standing ("Pre-Unrev-II-Colloquium") arrangement with Jeff > Harrow that allows me to extract and condense materials of particular interest to Fleabyte. > > You will find some predictions mentioned in his Feb. 18 report at > http://www.fleabyte.org/index.html#45 > > Perhaps even more fascination are predictions in the realm of business that may be found here: > http://theharrowgroup.com/articles/20020304/TNSY.htm > > Combine these with some of John Deneen's information (such as Big Brothers' sensors ratting on our > dreams) and we perceive that what may be technologically fascinating is much overshadowed by what may > be socially > catastrophic - especially if we consider that while developments in tech and biz speeds up at > rapidly, the change in social institutions is tardy. > > As an example of this tardiness, consider the recommendations in the report "Technology for All > Americans" (also mentioned in Fleabyte), how long it has taken to assemble these and how long it will > take to put them into effect. (This kind of tardiness is par for the course in the edcuc. business.) > > Somehow, it seems to me, if we want a viable democracy, we need a citizenship more attuned to > accellerating change, which probably (as far as I can see) entails a digitally literate citizenry that > knows how to get and evaluate information of social relevance, do so at a fast clip, and is capable of > meaningfully contributing to a communal decision-making process. Afterall, San Francisco Bay Area > traffic and partially hydrogenated fats are only two out of myriads of issues. > > Love to hear some realistic assessments and proposals in the Engelbart context. > > Henry > > > > > > > "John J. Deneen" wrote: > > > Henry, > > > > Relative to "Augmenting Big-Time", yesterday, &c., &c. > > From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Mar 4 12:04:35 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id B378F56F84; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:04:34 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from mail12.svr.pol.co.uk (mail12.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.215]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9022B56F7E for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:04:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from modem-80.banzai.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.25.228.80] helo=vaio) by mail12.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16hyvZ-00050z-00 for ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:19:22 +0000 Message-ID: <003201c1c3b9$bb58a740$623387d9@vaio> From: "Peter Jones" To: References: <3C6E57EF.5940EFC1@sympatico.ca> <3C812F53.E7D65E5C@netzero.net> Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Re: [ba-ohs-talk] OHS & the "now" enterprises, incl. CITRIS Kickoff Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:17:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org http://www.nwc.navy.mil/newrulesets/LifeAfterDODth.htm I've just read this article about the Navy and the Evernet that was part of John's post. "In effect, we will split DoD into a warfighting force (DGD) and a global emergency-response force (DNS), with the latter aspiring to as much global collaboration as possible (ultimately disintermediating the United Nations) and the former to virtually none. To put it another way, DGD is deterrence; DNS is assurance." Although the article is a projection of ideas, its suggestions seem likely (and being part of John's post for CITRIS provides evidence for that). Therefore, the phrase "ultimately disintermediating the United Nations" fills me with alarm. For it seems to be suggesting that security services worldwide will acquire an autonomous potency that has no democratic controls at the global level upon it. Is that an appropriate interpretation? If so,... They would operate without debate. And that would make them a rogue state. -- Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "John J. Deneen" To: Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [ba-ohs-talk] OHS & the "now" enterprises, incl. CITRIS Kickoff > Henry, > > Relative to "Augmenting Big-Time", yesterday, I attended a CITRIS > kickoff meeting at UC Berkeley. FYI, the following link is a 7.3 MB > powerpoint slide presentation. Notice Prof. Yoo's "Type A, B, C" > nomenclature for Reseacher Networking Needs (A), Production like > Networking Needs (B), and Both Networking Needs (C) for Societal-Scale > Applications. > < > http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~demmel/CITRIS_KickOff/CITRIS_Kickoff_Yoo3.pp t > > > > Also, I met and volunteered to help the new CITRIS director (Ruzena > Bajcsy) with the use of collaborative e-mail services for writing white > papers for more grants, etc. So is there anyone else interested in > helping with the "bootstrapping process" for developing Societal-Scale > Applications? If so, then > > Since the inception of California Institutes for Science and Innovation, > the planning of high-speed research networks has made a significant > progress, and currently this effort is through cooperation between > CENIC, UC, and collaborating campuses. In northern California, CITRIS > has made plans for a very high-speed network to support high-bandwidth > applications and experimental research needs > > Also, in southern California, CalIT2 has led LambdaGrid efforts in the > San Diego and Irvine area. Joining CENIC?s forward-looking Optical > Networking Initiative, 4 CISIs have formed a technical working group to > address the research networking issues. > > UCOP has now asked for the four Institutes to create, on a short time > scale, a white paper on what the driving applications are that require > such a network and what needs to be funded besides what CENIC is already > doing at the State level. There was a very successful workshop in > Southern California led by CalIT2 director Larry Smarr on February 5. > This workshop is the > second in the series amplifying the success, working towards the common > collaborative goal. We expect many more workshops to follow. > > oes any body affiliated with the Bootstrap Institute > > More insights about "Augmenting Big-Time" based on: > > 1) Waves of the Internet, > 2) Network Services in Context of Pervasive Mobile Internet, > 3) a recent workshop (March 12-14, 2002) report on New Visions for > Large-Scale Networks: Research and Applications, and > 4) Visions of Pervasive (Ubiquitous) Computing, "Smart Dust" (Autonomous > sensing and communication in a cubic millimeter) and why the notion of > being "online" versus "offline" will completely disappear, including the > Interplanetary Internet and India's wireless initiative. > > Platform Evolution (see pg. 3) > < http://azalea.ics.agh.edu.pl/projects/6winit/docs/CEEMAS2001.ppt> > > * An Internet of Computers > * An Internet of things that embed computers > * An Internet of things (MEMS) > 1) Infrastructureless networking: > Ad-hoc disposable networks; dynamically forming, self-organizing > hierarchy; and precision geo-location and ultra-wideband radios to > support sensornets; > > 2) Adaptive networking: > Network-aware distributed applications, proactive self-tuning > systems for ubiquitous computing, and custom channel building for > large-scale network systems. > > "Many key applications in Government, academia, and industry have > required far greater computing capability than was available at that > time, and that remains true today. These applications can be subdivided > into Grand Challenges (GC) and National Challenges (NC). The Grand > Challenges are those efforts that focus on computation intensive > problems in science and engineering with broad economic and scientific > impacts, whose solution can be advanced by HPCC techniques and > resources. Typical examples of GCs are computational structural biology > and global climate modeling. National Challenges on the other hand focus > on efforts that are information intensive, have broad and direct impact > on the nation's competitiveness and well-being of its citizens, and that > can benefit from the application of HPCC technologies and resources. > Some examples of NCs are digital libraries, electronic commerce, > education and life-long learning, and healthcare." > < http://www.itrd.gov/iwg/pca/lsn/lsn-workshop-12mar01/ > > < > http://www.hpcc.gov/iwg/pca/lsn/lsn-workshop-12mar01/workshop-12mar01.pd f > >, including additional publications index > < http://www.itrd.gov/pubs/index.html > > > For example, "The GriPhyN (Grid Physics Network) collaboration is a team > of experimental physicists and information technology (IT) researchers > who plan to implement the first Petabyte-scale computational > environments for data intensive science in the 21st century. Driving the > project are unprecedented requirements for geographically dispersed > extraction of complex scientific information from very large collections > of measured data. To meet these requirements, which arise initially from > the four physics experiments involved in this project but will also be > fundamental to science and commerce in the 21st century, GriPhyN will > deploy computational environments called Petascale Virtual Data Grids > (PVDGs) that meet the data-intensive computational needs of a diverse > community of thousands of scientists spread across the globe." > < http://www.griphyn.org/info/info.html > > > > Visions of Pervasive (Ubiquitous) Computing > > " . make a computer so imbedded, so fitting, so > natural, that we use it without even thinking about > it. > > "Ubiquitous (pervasive) computing is roughly the > opposite of virtual reality. Where virtual reality > puts people inside a computer-generated world, > ubiquitous computing forces the computer to live out > here in the world with people." - Mark Weiser, the > late Chief Technology Officer, Xerox PARC > < > http://www.ubiq.com/hypertext/weiser/NomadicInteractive/ > > > > "The sensor web allows you to make measurements on a > large scale, like in remote sensing, but with the > sensitivity of in situ instruments,"- Kevin Delin, > NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) 2000 > < > http://sensorwebs.jpl.nasa.gov/resources/sensorweb-concept.pdf > > > > "While America is on high-alert for more terrorist > attacks and is re-booting its economy, planet earth > will don an electronic skin. It will use the > Internet as a scaffold to support and transmit its > sensations. This skin is already being stitched > together. It consists of millions of embedded > electronic measuring devices: thermostats, pressure > gauges, pollution detectors, cameras, microphones, > glucose sensors, EKGs, electroencephalographs. These > will probe, monitor, and safeguard cities and > endangered species, the atmosphere, our ships, > highways and fleets of trucks, our conversations, > our bodies--even our dreams. > > There will be a great need for trillions of such > telemetric systems, each with a microprocessor brain > and a cognitive radio. Consultant Ernst & Young > predicts that by 2010, there will be 10,000 > telemetric devices for every human being on the > planet. They'll be in constant contact with one > another. Certainly there will be no central > intelligence. But many scientists believe that some > qualities of self-awareness will emerge once the Net > is sensually enhanced and emulates the complexity of > the human brain. > > Sensuality is only one force pushing the Net toward > intelligence. An eerie symbiosis of human and > machine effort is also starting to evolve. The > Internet creates a channel for thousands of > programmers around the world to collaborate on > software development and debugging. That has > produced an evolutionary leap in software: The > ''open source'' movement that spawned the Linux > operating system. The Linux world behaves as an > ecosystem--''a self-correcting spontaneous order,'' > as open-source pioneer Eric Raymond describes it in > his Net manifesto, The Cathedral and the Bazaar. > Through collaboration, this community can push past > the technical barriers to machine intelligence." > > "Over the next ten or so years, this notion of being "online" versus > "offline" will completely disappear, because of: > > * The computing industry moving to molecular-based computer circuitry > * The breaking up of the desktop computer's functions into a myriad > of tiny gadgetry that humans will wear or have embedded throughout > their living spaces and work environments-and ultimately even their > bodies via nanotechnology > * The maturation of ultra wideband wireless technologies that link > all of these sensors, gadgets, satellites, computers, and grids > * The continued development and extension of the earth-based portion > of the Global Information Infrastructure (GII), especially the > so-called last mile > * The coming revolution in near-space (earth-to-moon) information > infrastructure-quadrupling of satellites by 2010, then vast waves > of nano/picosatellites-that provide real-time wireless coverage > across the entire planet > * The migration of vast portions of human commerce, social, > educational, religious and political activity to the Internet and > World Wide Web, which come to encompass all current personal and > mass communication media. > > In other words, we go from today's limited-access Internet to an Evernet > with which we will remain in a state of constant connectivity. We will > progress from a day-to-day reality in which we must choose to go online > to one in which we must choose to go offline. This is not some distant > fantasy world. Almost all the technology we need for the Evernet exists > today. It mostly is just a matter of achieving connectivity. > > The rise of the Evernet will be humanity's greatest achievement to date > and will be universally recognized as our most valued planetary asset or > collective good. Downtime, or loss of connectivity, becomes the > standard, time-sensitive definition of a national security crisis, and > protection of the Evernet becomes the preeminent security task of > governments around the world. Ruling elites will rise and fall based on > their security policies toward, and the political record on, the care > and feeding of the Evernet, whose health will be treated by mass media > as having the same broad human interest and import as the weather > (inevitably eclipsing even that)." > < http://www.nwc.navy.mil/newrulesets/LifeAfterDODth.htm > > > The Interplanetary Internet > Architecture and Key Technical Concepts > < http://www.ipnsig.org/reports/INET-Tutorial-5June01.ppt > > > The Next Frontier in Mobility > < http://www.ipnsig.org/reports/INETPlenary-06June01.ppt > > > Overview of specific in-situ sensor technologies, including SensorML, > and networking in the extreme. > < http://lternet.edu/technology/sensors/technologies.htm > > < http://vast.uah.edu/SensorML/SensorML_0601.ppt > > > India's Wireless Initiative and Ultrawideband (UWB) - an > Infrastructureless, Multi-hop, Ad-hoc, Wireless Networking Technology > India is planning to skip wireless 3G technology because of the > associated costs and delays for building the necessary infrastructure, > so will they chose an infrastructureless 5G technology like UWB instead? > > < http://www.mit.gov.in/tifac/Finalwireless-initiative.pdf > > > When Ultra-wideband (UWB) radios with opto-electronic integration > (i.e.,"smart dust") are under software control, they can dynamically > trade data rate, power consumption, and range. This type of flexibility > is what is needed to enable the power-constrained portable computing > applications of the future. This form of peer-to-peer collaborative > architecture and interaction over a wireless LAN is sometimes > characterized as an self-organizing and self-healing ad-hoc networks > with an inherent robustness to multi-path fading, and a low probability > of intercept and detection for jamming due to the nature of the short > (sub-nanosecond) impulse. Since each node is mobile, it needs to connect > to the network dynamically and in an arbitrary fashion. All > participating nodes may act as routers, when they forward data packets > on behalf of other nodes on the network. They also take part in > connection discovery and route maintenance to other nodes on the > network. Sub-nets can form when a larger group of nodes sub-divides into > two or more smaller groups that are separated by distance or poor RF > propagation conditions. > > UWB is only becoming commercially viable now through decreased costs and > recent advancements in chip development, the evolution of the > marketplace, and FCC recent approval (2/14/02). What is driving UWB into > the consumer market is the ability to render UWB circuitry into CMOS > technology. Therefore as CMOS scales say from .25 to .18 to .13 micron > so does the UWB circuitry. As a result some call UWB "Moore's Law > Radio". Up until a few years ago the circuitry to implement UWB was > power and form factor constrained. With UWB being done in CMOS this is > no longer the case. As a matter of fact we will see smaller and smaller > UWB devices over the next few years. > > Other advantageous features of UWB are penetration and signal power. In > terms of penetration, for instance, an unfiltered pulse of 200 > picoseconds duration, when applied through a Fourier formula, > demonstrates signal energy throughout the spectrum between DC > and 5 GHz. Obviously this is not a perfect square wave representation > because the pulse is subject to some coloring from the antenna - and > antenna technology is an extremely important facet of UWB technology - > but with proper antenna implementations the distribution of energy is > spread fairly evenly across the spectrum. A UWB receiver detects the > presence of the energy of the pulse in time, not at specific > frequencies, so absorption of specific carriers such as at 1.8GHz or > 2.4GHz has little effect, so long as about 50% of the spectral energy > density of the pulse penetrates whatever obstacles lie in the > transmission path. Absorption at any one particular frequency does > little to affect the integrity of the actual pulse. > > In terms of signal power, the simplest conceptual demonstration would be > to think of Morse code. Imagine you hook up a microphone to a one-watt > transmitter and start speaking into it. Your voice is being used to > generate a complex modulation onto an analog carrier. That same complex > modulation must be received and de-modulated at the receiver. In order > to recover your voice at the receiver, integrity of both the modulation > and the carrier must be maintained. Although the carrier is capable of > going great distances, the modulation is much more fragile and degrades > over distance quickly, so you might be able to recover the voice > modulated signal > a mile or so away. Now, take the microphone off of the one-watt > transmitter and instead attach a Morse code oscillator to the same > one-watt transmitter. All you need to recover is the dots and dashes, > (in essence, is the signal present or not?). These simple pulses can be > detected at increased distances by a factor of over ten relative to a > modulated carrier. In Ultra Wideband, we might radiate a 200 picoseconds > (.2 billionths of a second) pulse of one-watt energy. At any given > frequency between DC and 5 GHz the demonstrated energy of the pulse is > beneath the noise floor, hence peaceful co-existence with carrier > technologies. (To calculate the energy take 1 Watt and divide by the > frequency spread. In this case 1 watt divided by 5,000,000,000. = Noise > Floor). > > UWB operates on microwatts of power, less than 1/1000 the power required > by conventional cellular phones. UWB also possesses geographic > positioning accuracy to within centimeters, far more accurate than > satellite GPS. Because UWB operates in what is known as the "noise > floor," UWB signals are almost impossible to detect and have been used > by the Secret Service and a very small circle of similar environments > for years as perhaps the most secure form of wireless communication > available. > > Intel's Analysis of UWB Technology for Short- or Medium-Range Wireless > Communications > < http://developer.intel.com/technology/itj/q22001/articles/art_4.htm > > > Presentation by Jeff Foerster, Intel Architecture Labs > < http://www.ieee.or.com/Archive/uwb.pdf > > > Theoretical limits of 60 GHz UWB chips in CMOS > < > http://bwrc.eecs.berkeley.edu/Research/UWB/publications/rwb_intel_uwb.pp t > > > > Smart Dust > "The goal of the Smart Dust project is to build a self-contained, > millimeter-scale sensing and communication platform for a massively > distributed sensor network. This device will be around the size of a > grain of sand and will contain (TinyOS) sensors, computational ability, > bi-directional wireless communications, and a power supply, while being > inexpensive enough to deploy by the hundreds. The science and > engineering goal of the project is to build a complete, complex system > in a tiny volume using state-of-the art technologies (asopposed to > futuristic technologies), which will require evolutionary and > revolutionary advances in integration, miniaturization, and energy > management. We forsee many applications for this technology: > > * Weather/seismological monitoring on Mars > * Internal spacecraft monitoring > * Land/space comm. networks > * Chemical/biological sensors > * Weapons stockpile monitoring > * Defense-related sensor networks > * Inventory Control > * Product quality monitoring > * Smart office spaces > * Sports - sailing, balls" > > < http://www-bsac.eecs.berkeley.edu/~warneke/SmartDust/index.html> > > Video Semaphore Decoding for Free-Space Optical Communication > < > http://www-bsac.EECS.Berkeley.EDU/~tparsons/PisterPublications/2001/spie -smart-pixel_liebowitz.pdf > > > > > In summary, UC Berkeley "Smart Dust" developer Prof. Pister says: > > "In 2010 MEMS sensors will be everywhere, and > sensing virtually everything. Scavenging power from > sunlight, vibration, thermal gradients, and > background RF, sensors motes will be immortal, > completely self contained, single chip computers > with sensing, communication, and power supply built > in. Entirely solid state, and with no natural decay > processes, they may well survive the human race. > Descendants of dolphins may mine them from arctic > ice and marvel at the extinct technology." > < > http://robotics.EECS.Berkeley.EDU/~pister//SmartDust/in2010> > > Henry K van Eyken wrote: > > > When we read that General Electric has put in place a "digital nervous > > > > system that connects anything and everything involved in the company's > > > > business: IT systems, factories and employees, as well as suppliers, > > customers and products." And when we further read in the same article > > that "GE's senior managers have such a constantly updated view of > > their > > enterprise" and that"Their screens differ according to their > > particular > > business," one does get animpression that what is described here is > > Doug's OHS - unless clear distinguishing features spring to mind. > > > > Having put together "Augmenting Big-Time" ( > > http://www.fleabyte.org/eic-8.html ) I feel I have failed to clearly > > demonstrate the distinguishing features and potential applicability of > > > > the OHS other than that it is more textual than datastream, and > > concomittant with that, more interactive in an analog sense. It > > appears > > to me that the OHS is lagging in responsiveness to the digital nervous > > > > system described above, but that it has the merit of permitting faster > > > > deliberation tthrough document-sharing between people. This suggests > > that it is well to attempt to define clearly the particular niches for > > > > the OHS and to design an OHS tie-in to financial, > > technological/industrial, and scientific datastreams. > > > > Looking at the world from my place here out in the sticks, it seems to > > > > me that much has changed since the Stanford Colloquium two years ago. > > I > > very much welcome enlightening comments on this subject, preferably in > > a > > form I can attach to the aricle, "Augmentation Big-Time." It may be > > well > > that particular attention be paid to response times between electronic > > > > and neural parties and, hence, to particular applications of the OHS > > in > > the worldly scheme of things; say, in education, in design work, in > > strategic planning, &c. > > > > I believe this topic is very much worthy of a good discussion on this > > ba-ohs forum. > > > > Henry > > ---------------------------------------------------- > Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today > Only $9.95 per month! > http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 > From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Mar 4 20:41:51 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 9EFA356F7A; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:41:50 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.187]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F15B256F78 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:41:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.228.165.143]) by tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020305045633.MVOI13336.tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net@sympatico.ca> for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:56:33 -0500 Message-ID: <3C84505A.3B829A26@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 23:58:02 -0500 From: Henry K van Eyken X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.7-10 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Re: [ba-ohs-talk] OHS & the "now" enterprises, incl. CITRIS Kickoff References: <3C6E57EF.5940EFC1@sympatico.ca> <3C812F53.E7D65E5C@netzero.net> <3C82D825.1D84F907@sympatico.ca> <002001c1c3b2$2202fa20$623387d9@vaio> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Peter. Ah! Good, oldfashioned direct, Athenean democracy with everyone having a vote except, of course, the Helotes and the women! Seriously, I just don't know how things may pan out. but I would expect that greater transparency will roll back political skullduggery, etc. Transparency has two components: public availability of information and public grasp (insight, judgment) of what the information entails and its potential effects on all strata of society. Enhancing that grasp (through computing & education) would help people to recognize when tales are being spun by or on behalf of particular interest groups. That is the short of it, but still I should expand just a little beyond this. I believe that a greater emphasis must be given to the human values aspect of things, especially with society going through increasingly tumultuous times. Information should be evaluated in terms of human values and with due regard to social strata. Henry Peter Jones wrote: > Henry van Eyken wrote: > > > Somehow, it seems to me, if we want a viable democracy, we need a > citizenship more attuned to > > accellerating change, which probably (as far as I can see) entails a > digitally literate citizenry that > > knows how to get and evaluate information of social relevance, do so > at a fast clip, and is capable of > > meaningfully contributing to a communal decision-making process. > > Let's say that we empower the people with computers and somehow hook > that more directly into the democratic process. > Thus far, in business, the Internet has had a reputation for brutally > removing the middlemen. So it must be asked, just what are the likely > effects of this move upon the legislative process, and upon the present > notion of delegation of power to an elected representative executive? > Typically laws get enacted to shore up moral holes in the range of > society's activities. Either they are lobbied for, or they arise from > novel situations requiring novel litigation. The representative > executive raise, debate, tailor, and then vote in or vote out new law. > Note that the lobbies are currently representatives too, and some might > say there's a bias towards rich lobbies having more influence, but that > depends on the moral prudence of the executive. > So we are looking at a potentially radical shift in the directness with > which the executive are lobbied - and pushing that to an extreme, > perhaps the populace simply _becomes_ the executive in the future. And > we are looking at a whole new way of lobbying, wherein that activity is > again made more direct missing out the representative middlemen and a > lot of dispute. > Perhaps representation to the executive then becomes more proportional > to the desires of the populace as a whole, *assuming the removal of the > majority principle and having all votes count.* > And maybe making law becomes a matter of statistical satisfaction. But > that's assuming that the majority of the populace have sound judgement. > And there are also problems with overcoming voting apathy. So it seems > to me that the system would still require debate of issues by the > sagacious, but the possibility of a more transparent democratic process > is really there. > In short, it might result in dramatic institutional and constitutional > reform, and the only way to steer the populace after the mechanism was > in place would be through the (infotainment multi-)media. > > -- > Peter From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Mar 11 15:03:40 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 8CD9256F79; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:03:39 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27F5F56F78 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:03:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from ha1sca-mail1.SFBay.Sun.COM ([129.145.155.51]) by mercury.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06060 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:18:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from sun.com (d-usca14-129-126 [129.145.129.126]) by ha1sca-mail1.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id g2BNIcW27393 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:18:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3C8D3B4E.3E2175CE@sun.com> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:18:38 -0800 From: Eric Armstrong X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Fun article Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/10/books/review/10ZIMMERT.html?todaysheadlines Digital Biology --------------- .... Microchips, for example, can now evolve. Bentley describes how Adrian Thompson, a British engineer, came up with a few dozen random arrangements of transistors and programmed a computer to test how well they did various jobs, like distinguishing between high-pitched and low-pitched tones. The first generation of chips always performed miserably, but some of them a little less miserably than the rest. The computer saved the less miserable designs and combined them into hybrids. In the process, it also sprinkled a few random changes into the designs, mutations if you will. A few offspring could distinguish between the tones slightly better than their parents -- and they produced a third generation. By mimicking evolution for a few thousand rounds, the computer produced chips that did their job exquisitely well. But Thompson doesn't quite know how they work. To understand them, he resorts to measuring the temperature of parts of the chips, like a neurologist using an M.R.I. scanner to probe a brain. ....The strategy ants use to follow scent trails becomes a method for laying out networks of cellphone towers. The way embryos develop becomes a method for turning a small program into a complex one without any intervention from a programmer.... ....Bentley sees no real difference between digital biology and biology outside of a computer. To him, there is nothing artificial about artificial life: ''The first person to hold a conversation with an alien intelligence will not be an astronaut, it will be a computer scientist or computational neuroscientist, talking to an evolved digital neural network.'' From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Mar 11 16:26:29 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id DD2E556F7B; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:26:28 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts10.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.54]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A16256F79 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:26:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.228.186.6]) by tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020312004127.QYEL13142.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@sympatico.ca> for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:41:27 -0500 Message-ID: <3C8D08CB.9C951673@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:43:07 +0000 From: Henry K van Eyken X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Fun article References: <3C8D3B4E.3E2175CE@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Yes, a fun article ... with tiny boobytraps laid by the unaugmented human mind . Zimmer's lead paragraph made me recall Rex Harrison's outcry in the movie Pygmalion: "Why aren't women more like men?" Zimmer's plaint, "Why aren't scientists more like engineers?" also overlooks the fact that one kind complements the other. Scientists surmize facts about nature that engineers may usefully apply - in part to make tools for scientists to surmize more facts about nature that ... and so on. Another tiny item that struck me is that I used to believe it is fuzzy logic that found application in building washing machines and vacuum cleaners, not chaos theory. Ah, nitpicking maybe, but kind of reminds me of Michael Gazzanigga's quip, "Some of my best memories are false." Consider it an example of a problem that arises from a growth of knowledge so rapid that individuals can get ever more easily balled up by making all sorts of clever inferences too hastely. College professors included, for all I know. Also, and I may be dead wrong here, but I have become inclined to believe - as I believe Eric does - that even though brains have created computers, computers may not ever make brains. Hence I love Zimmer's parabel of the four notes and Mahler's Ninth. Henry Eric Armstrong wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/10/books/review/10ZIMMERT.html?todaysheadlines > > Digital Biology > --------------- > .... > Microchips, for example, can now evolve. Bentley describes how Adrian > Thompson, a British engineer, came up with a few dozen random > arrangements of transistors and programmed a computer to test how well > they did various jobs, like distinguishing between high-pitched and > low-pitched tones. The first generation of chips always performed > miserably, but some of them a little less miserably than the rest. The > computer saved the less miserable designs and combined them into > hybrids. In the process, it also sprinkled a few random changes into the > designs, mutations if you will. A few offspring could distinguish > between the tones slightly better than their parents -- and they > produced a third generation. By mimicking evolution for a few thousand > rounds, the computer produced chips that did their job exquisitely well. > But Thompson doesn't quite know how they work. To understand them, he > resorts to measuring the temperature of parts of the chips, like a > neurologist using an M.R.I. scanner to probe a brain. > > ....The strategy ants use to follow scent trails becomes a method for > laying out networks of cellphone towers. The way embryos develop becomes > a method for turning a small program into a complex one without any > intervention from a programmer.... > > ....Bentley sees no real difference between digital biology and biology > outside of a computer. To him, there is nothing artificial about > artificial life: ''The first person to hold a conversation with an alien > intelligence will not be an astronaut, it will be a computer scientist > or computational neuroscientist, talking to an evolved digital neural > network.'' From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Mar 11 16:34:21 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id AA01656F7D; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:34:20 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from kathmandu.sun.com (kathmandu.sun.com [192.18.98.36]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39A9856F7B for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:34:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from ha1sca-mail1.SFBay.Sun.COM ([129.145.155.51]) by kathmandu.sun.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26505 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:49:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from sun.com (d-usca14-129-126 [129.145.129.126]) by ha1sca-mail1.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id g2C0nIW17246 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:49:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3C8D508E.7D618EE0@sun.com> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:49:18 -0800 From: Eric Armstrong X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Fun article References: <3C8D3B4E.3E2175CE@sun.com> <3C8D08CB.9C951673@sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Henry K van Eyken wrote: > Another tiny item that struck me is that I used to believe it is fuzzy logic that > found application in building washing machines and vacuum cleaners, not chaos > theory. Actually, you are quite correct. Fuzzy logic has been used successfully for years now in Japan. In addition to fuzzy-logic controlled washing machines and rice cookers, the acceleration of their high-speed trains is controlled via fuzzy logic. I'm told that from start to stop, curves and all, you never need to hold on to a strap. Similary, the washing machines determines fabric type by the volume and weight of the clothes, and the amount of dirt by I don't know what technique, and then gets the temperature and suds right without ever having to adjust a knob. Pretty cool stuff. I figured, though, that the new technique could be used in those cases, as well, and the author knew something I didn't. :_) From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Mar 11 20:39:25 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 6251356F7E; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:39:25 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.183]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8FE856F7C for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:39:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.228.165.188]) by tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020312045424.EDKN12395.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@sympatico.ca> for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:54:24 -0500 Message-ID: <3C8D4415.646B27B8@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:56:05 +0000 From: Henry K van Eyken X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Fun article References: <3C8D3B4E.3E2175CE@sun.com> <3C8D08CB.9C951673@sympatico.ca> <3C8D508E.7D618EE0@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Eric Armstrong wrote: > Similary, the washing machines determines fabric type by the volume > and weight of the clothes, and the amount of dirt by I don't know what > technique, and then gets the temperature and suds right without ever > having to adjust a knob. Pretty cool stuff. Indeed. Not to belabor things, but notice the author 's possible confusion also about chaos theory and complexity theory. Speaking more generally, to write professionally for a commercial periodical is like filling a Japanese washing machine - the volume per issue is pretty much predetermined which in the rush of time can make for factual errors and fuzzy logic that subsequently are likely to pass into readers' minds, with potentially deliterious effects. Actually, I am glad Eric contributed this NY Times article because it demonstrates something very, very important, something that is bound to happen more and more: folks getting confused in the turbulence of information, much of it unreliable. Which leads to the business we are in, which is satisfying the need for effective augmentation, individualized to circumstance. In the case of journalists, they might avail themselves not only of spelling checkers, but also of semantics checkers or memory-straighteners. Kidding aside, it would be quite interesting to have a bit of a free-for-all on the subject of individualized electronic augmentation in the age of information explosion and a trickling down of multidisciplinarity to the level of everyday life - the level, for example, of citizens contributing to informed, reasoned communal decision-making that touches on domains of specialization (gene manipulation; cultural indoctrination; quality of our food, air and water; matters of personal conduct and justice in the light of new insights into the structural stratification of human brains, parcipitpory communal responsibility for society's offspring, how free the market, etc.). How should educators view the preparation of young people for the next 50 years of communal life on a global scale while knowing how the brain structurally adapts to educational experiences. How can augmentation help, if indeed it can? How will people's sense of things change in a world that knows fewer and fewer firm, immutable facts? Can we avoid building potentially harmful prejudices during early child rearing and in the classrooms, instead putting a trust in electronically assisted judgements? And what of the mental confusion caused - deliberately and with a sense that this is perfectly alright - by marketing and political spin doctors? Should they be held responsible for the damage they (possibly) do by misleading the public? Is it reasonably to expect that "caveat emptor" applies in an ever-complexing society? (Extreme case: the tobacco industry.) What roles do we expect various professions, and their professional ethics, to play? What role should computer scientists and engineers play? How will all this dovetail? By golly; big subject. Henry From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Sun Mar 17 18:24:53 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 2027B56F79; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:24:53 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.4]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D26F56F78 for ; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:24:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.228.165.146]) by tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020318023959.JTNL8059.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@sympatico.ca> for ; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:39:59 -0500 Message-ID: <3C950DA3.C7133200@sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:41:55 +0000 From: Henry K van Eyken X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Look, Ma, no hands! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org http://www.brown.edu/Administration/News_Bureau/2001-02/01-098.html The above links to a Brown Univesity press release. It concerns a rhesus monkey playing a simple video game with signals from thought to monitor following two different pathways: normal: thought -> neurons in motor cortex -> finger -> mouse -> CPU -> monitor different: thought -> neurons in motor cortex -> wire to signal converter -> CPU -> monitor. Important application potential for handicapped people. Enjoy. Henry From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Sun Mar 17 20:17:29 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 8D59B56F79; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 20:17:28 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from mail7.wlv.netzero.net (mail7.wlv.netzero.net [209.247.163.57]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 42D7156F78 for ; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 20:17:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 22585 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 04:32:33 -0000 Received: from 63-93-107-30.oak.dial.netzero.com (HELO netzero.net) (63.93.107.30) by mail7.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 04:32:33 -0000 Message-ID: <3C956DC6.27A0DCB3@netzero.net> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 20:32:06 -0800 From: "John J. Deneen" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en]C-{C-UDP; EBM-SONY1} (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] HyperScope Prototype: "WIMPy" to "SILKy" GUI? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Exploring the human side of computing & To Err is Human Exploring the human side of computing "Prof. Raj Reddy at Carnegie Mellon University, refers to his vision of moving users from WIMPy to SILKy, from Windows, Icons, Mouse, Pointing (WIMPy) to Speech, Image, Language and Knowledge (SILKy) — transforming users from information technologists to true knowledge workers, focusing not on software programs and raw data but on tasks, information, outcomes and results. "The most precious resource in a computer system is no longer its processor, memory, disk or network. Rather, it is a resource not subject to Moore's law: User Attention. Today's systems distract a user in many explicit and implicit ways, thereby reducing his effectiveness." < http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/ccarch/ccmak004.htm > I extracted the text below from the following MS-powerpoint presentation, since it may be of value for developers of HyperScope to discuss and consider in the design criteria. To Err is Human Computational Limits to Human Thinking : Implications for the Design of Human Centered Interfaces (Raj Reddy, Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA 15213) March 16, 2000 < http://www.rr.cs.cmu.edu/toerr.ppt > Human Strengths and Human Limitations Strengths: People * communicate using speech and natural language * tolerate errorful, ambiguous and imprecise input * exploit vast amounts of knowledge * learn from the environment Limitations: People * make errors * tend to forget * become impatient * get confused * need to collaborate * tend to be lazy WIMPy Interfaces have largely Ignored Human Strengths and Human Limitations * Need to move towards SILKy * Interfaces: Speech, Image, Language and Knowledge based human centered interfaces (Video of Carnegie Mellon Communicator illustrating interactive spoken language dialog) To Err is Human Problem: * Catastrophic loss of data: “I didn’t mean to do that ?” * Unanticipated side-effects: “how did that happen?” Causes: * Sensory, Cognitive and Motor overload * Information Overload: “Like being in a traffic jam” * Timing Errors: Simplify the task Present Solutions: * Partial Undo * Dialog Boxes To Err is Human (Cont.) Future Opportunities: * Unlimited Undo * Anytime Anywhere Abort * DWIM (Do What I Mean) System Issues: * Require redesign at the OS level, network level and the application level To Forget is Human Problem: * A non-expert occasional user can’t be expected to remember the details Causes: * Forgetting is the loss of indexing structure * Redundancy in the indexing structure is the key Present Solutions: * Recognition vs. recall: GUIs and Menus * On-line manuals To Forget is Human (Cont.) Future Opportunities: * Use of color, fonts, voice responses for focusing attention Intelligent Help * “How do I” and “What if” MultiMedia documentation * Learning by Doing and Learning by Example * “Reference librarian” agent * Chemical abstracts metaphor System Issues: * On-line help must change: enormous investment To be Impatient is Human Problem: * Time to get the answer in interactive problem solving * Reduce the response time * Network operations: Unpredictable retrieval and browsing times Automatic MSN and AOL updates at login Present Solutions: * Hour glasses and wheels * No idea how long it will take * Progress bars To be Impatient is Human (Cont.) Future Opportunities: * Updates in the background * Learn from experience: self-aware systems * Look ahead retrieval and computation * Hurry-up algorithms * Keystroke model Systems issues: * Introduction of monitors in OS and applications * Background multitasking: intermixed packets To be Confused is Human Problem: * Unable to deal with information clutter Causes: * Information overload * Computational constraints on human thinking * Incomplete and ambiguous information Present Solutions: * Hide and/or re-arrange windows * Illegal syntax * Restrict use of Natural Language To be Confused is Human (Cont.) Future Opportunities: * Infoglut: Filters and Agents * Human Attention: Use multiple sensory modalities * Incomplete and Ambiguous Information: clarification dialog System Issues: * Agent architecture and integration into Operating Systems. To Collaborate is Human Problem: * Many tasks which cannot be done by a single person Causes: * A single person may not have the skills to solve a given problem * Independent / Loosely Coupled / Closely Coupled Interactions Present Solutions: * Instant Messaging and Chat Rooms * Serial sequential problem solving Groupware To Collaborate is Human (Cont.) Future Opportunities: * Concurrent Engineering * Parallel Asynchronous Problem Solving * Common Language and Conventions * Building a bridge or plane * Distributed in Space * Distributed in Time and Space Systems Issues: * Systems need new representations and architectures * Collaborative Writing: Transaction Files * Collaborative Design: Structured Dialog Trees * Collaborative Planning: Abstraction of Interactive Dialogs To be Lazy is Human Problem: * Most people use a minimal subset of functionality in Word, PowerPoint, etc. * Most people avoid tasks requiring too much cognitive effort * PGP - too much work * FTP - too complex Causes: * Principle of least effort Present Solutions: * Tip of the Day in Word To be Lazy is Human (Cont.) Future opportunities: * Advice giving agents that look over your shoulder * Just-in-time learning * Gentle slope systems * Agents (wizards!) that know about PGP, FTP, or whatever Systems issues: * Applications that know about their own functionality * End user agent creation technology * Intelligent tutoring tools ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Sun Mar 17 20:17:51 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id DB30C56F7A; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 20:17:50 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from mail8.wlv.netzero.net (mail8.wlv.netzero.net [209.247.163.58]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9ADA156F79 for ; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 20:17:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 1504 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 04:32:55 -0000 Received: from 63-93-107-30.oak.dial.netzero.com (HELO netzero.net) (63.93.107.30) by mail8.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 04:32:55 -0000 Message-ID: <3C956DDE.AF883CA6@netzero.net> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 20:32:30 -0800 From: "John J. Deneen" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en]C-{C-UDP; EBM-SONY1} (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] CITRIS Social Science Fellowships Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org "The World will not evolve past its current state of crisis by using the same thinking that created the situation." - Albert Einstein Relative to the Bootstrap Institute's mission, UC Berkeley's Center for Information Technology Research in the Interest of Society (CITRIS) web site < http://citris.berkeley.edu/> has an interesting discussion paper on possible roles for social scientists in developing CITRIS projects. < http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~demmel/CITRIS_KickOff/CITRIS_Kalil.htm > Members of CITRIS believe that social scientists can and should play an important role in this research initiative. To encourage the involvement of social scientists at the graduate student level, CITRIS is sponsoring two kinds of fellowships. Depending on the quality of the applications, CITRIS plans to award up to 4 Dissertation Fellowships and 4 Master’s Fellowships. * Dissertation Fellowships: 2 year, $25,000/year fellowships to support dissertation research. Applicants must plan to have completed all requirements for the Ph.D. except for the research component by September 2002. * Master’s Fellowships: 1 year, $15,000 fellowship to support a master’s thesis or master’s-level project. The deadline for applications is May 1, 2002. Applications must be received by this date. Awards will be announced June 1, 2002. Below are some possible research topics, although this is not intended to be an exclusive list. * What are some of the risks associated with the technologies that CITRIS is developing, and how might they be mitigated? * What are the public policies and economic, legal, social and cultural factors that may either slow or accelerate the deployment of CITRIS technologies? * How can the design of CITRIS technologies be enhanced by methodologies such as ethnography? * What other application areas should CITRIS consider, such as the use of IT to help empower and educate low-income individuals and communities? * What can we learn about the economic and social impact of technology from historical and comparative (e.g. other advanced industrial countries) case studies? * How should CITRIS technologies be evaluated? Eligibility Applicants must be enrolled in graduate programs at UC Berkeley, UC Davis, or UC Santa Cruz in social science or related disciplines. For additional information Questions can be directed to: Leah Theriault theriaul@coe.berkeley.edu 510-642-7645 ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Mar 18 13:59:11 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id C17C856F79; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:59:10 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from pheriche.sun.com (pheriche.sun.com [192.18.98.34]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCD3256F78 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:59:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ha1sca-mail1.SFBay.Sun.COM ([129.145.155.51]) by pheriche.sun.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22999 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:14:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from sun.com (d-usca14-129-126 [129.145.129.126]) by ha1sca-mail1.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id g2IMEGW21335 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:14:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3C9666B7.B057600B@sun.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:14:15 -0800 From: Eric Armstrong X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Incredible article Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/17/magazine/17ONLINE.html?todaysheadlines This one is on music. By Kevin Kelly author, of ''New Rules for the New Economy: 10 Radical Strategies for a Connected World". The article is SO insightful that I suspect the book is highly worth reading. He looks at music, tradition, and technology. His insights would appear to apply to, and interact with, knowledge engineering systems, and his crystal ball appears to me to be remarkable clear. From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Mar 18 16:44:57 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id E42A356F79; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:44:56 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts12.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.56]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7D40956F78 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:44:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.228.233.70]) by tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020319010004.SYCX811.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@sympatico.ca> for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:00:04 -0500 Message-ID: <3C9647B8.4C2123A0@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:02:00 +0000 From: Henry K van Eyken X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Incredible article References: <3C9666B7.B057600B@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Eric. Interesting article, well thought out. Just like to mention another item: the quality of digital music vs analog. It compares somewhat to a photo printed on a press as compared to one developed in a darkroom. I have some music on 33-rpm vinyl as well as on CD. To my ageing ears, vinyl still wins. And Napster and Morpheus can't touch it. Yet. Henry Eric Armstrong wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/17/magazine/17ONLINE.html?todaysheadlines > > This one is on music. By Kevin Kelly author, of > ''New Rules for the New Economy: 10 Radical Strategies > for a Connected World". > > The article is SO insightful that I suspect the book is > highly worth reading. > > He looks at music, tradition, and technology. His insights > would appear to apply to, and interact with, knowledge > engineering systems, and his crystal ball appears to me to > be remarkable clear. From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Mar 18 16:56:48 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 881B856F79; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:56:47 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from patan.sun.com (patan.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5EAF956F78 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:56:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ha1sca-mail1.SFBay.Sun.COM ([129.145.155.51]) by patan.sun.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02685 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:11:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from sun.com (d-usca14-129-126 [129.145.129.126]) by ha1sca-mail1.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id g2J1BmW01606 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:11:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3C969054.6E206A27@sun.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:11:48 -0800 From: Eric Armstrong X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Incredible article References: <3C9666B7.B057600B@sun.com> <3C9647B8.4C2123A0@sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Henry K van Eyken wrote: > I have some music on 33-rpm vinyl as well as on CD. To my ageing ears, vinyl > still wins. And Napster and Morpheus can't touch it. Yet. Yup. People with really good ears all the say the same thing. And I note that my DVD player has occasional stalls, where the picture freezes for 1/4 second, or so. Very weird. And you know what, you can't "bookmark" a DVD by stopping it, taking it out, and resuming where you left off later! From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Tue Mar 19 14:00:02 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id CE0F556F79; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:00:01 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from mail12.svr.pol.co.uk (mail12.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.215]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1D45E56F79; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:59:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from modem-78.bulbasaur.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.135.47.78] helo=vaio) by mail12.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16nRsg-000131-00; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:14:59 +0000 Message-ID: <000e01c1cf93$5964b980$4e2f87d9@vaio> From: "Peter Jones" To: , Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] [ANN] GSIX v0.46 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:13:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Hi, I'd just like to draw folks attention to the latest version of GSIX, v.0.46. http://www.concept67.fsnet.co.uk/gsix/ Only one minor change to the spec itself, in the second bubble rule to clarify a nuance of node merger. But I've also added an extra document (see the Further Notes section near the bottom of the spec) "Suggested Method for Generating a GSIX Graph from a Relational Database". Cheers, -- Peter Jones ppj@concept67.fsnet.co.uk From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Tue Mar 19 17:31:57 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 3B65556F79; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:31:57 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D4CD356F78 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:31:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from home ([63.197.14.24]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with SMTP id <0GT90044R0YACF@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:47:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:47:06 -0800 From: John Maloney Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] KM Cluster In-reply-to: <000e01c1cf93$5964b980$4e2f87d9@vaio> To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org This bulletin is the final update and invitation to the San Francisco Bay Area and Silicon Valley Knowledge Management (KM) Cluster Spring 2002 Event on Thursday, March 28, 2002 in downtown San Francisco. http://kmcluster.com The KM Cluster Spring 2002 theme is: "Collaborative Knowledge Networks." Pre-registration is required On-site registration is not available. Secure, on-line eRegistration is now open: https://www.kmcluster.com/secureorderform.htm Spring 2002 Final Agenda ************************ The KM Cluster is pleased to offer the following line-up for Spring 2002. - Robin Athey and Adriaan Jooste of Deloitte Research will present recent research findings on "Collaborative Knowledge Networks." http://www.kmcluster.com/CKN.pdf - Eric Bier and Ken Pier, from the Palo Alto Research Center, Inc., will discuss "Sparrow Web: Group-Writable Community Web Pages." http://www.kmcluster.com/sparrow_web.htm - David Gilmour, president and CEO of Tacit Knowledge Systems will lead an interactive session on "Expertise Automation for the Enterprise." http://www.tacit.com - Kevin Kail of Vitria Technology, Inc., (Nasdaq: VITR) will discuss "Vocabulary-based Approaches to B2B Collaboration." http://vcml.net/ - Todd Ray of Groove Networks will describe the "The Benefits of Decentralized Collaboration" to collaborative knowledge networks. http://www.groove.net KM Cluster On-line Community Collaboration ****************************************** Response to the Spring 2002 KM Cluster on-line community collaboration has been very good. The current shared space contains excellent content on collaborative knowledge networks. To join your KM Cluster colleagues in the on-line venue, please visit http://www.kmcluster.com/community.htm and follow the instructions. New York KM Cluster ******************* The New York Metropolitan KM Cluster is pleased to announce its next event. You are invited and encouraged to attend. For further information visit: http://www.kmcluster.com/nyc/. Date and Time: Thursday, April 4th, 2002 @ 6:00-9:00PM Location: Novell, Inc - New York Office, 1177 Avenue of the America's 35th floor New York, NY. KM Cluster Co-Sponsored Events ****************************** "Intranet Content Management: Optimize Corporate Performance and Facilitate Knowledge Sharing" April 9,10,11, 2002 in SF. KM Cluster members receive a 10% discount. http://www.cmfocus.com/kmcluster.html DCI's "Corporate and e-Business Portals Conference" to be held April 30, May 1-2, 2002, in SF. Mention KM Cluster and priority code TFPTL22 to receive a $300.00 registration discount. http://www.dci.com/brochure/porsf/. Global KM eXchange Conference & Exhibition "High Performance and Innovation in a Fast Changing World" June 25-27, 2002 in New York. KM Cluster members receive 10% off conference fees (discount code KMC1) www.globalkmexchange.com Spring 2002 Logistics and Venue ******************************* The Spring 2002 KM Cluster will be held Thursday, March 28, 2002. The location is the San Francisco State University Downtown Campus Conference Center, Room 304, 3rd Floor, 425 Market Street @ Fremont Street, San Francisco, CA. http://www.sfaug.org/meetings/SFSUdirections.html The event will be held from 8:30am-5:00pm. http://www.kmcluster.com/Spring_2002_Agenda.htm The Spring 2002 KM Cluster has an outstanding line-up. The event will reach capacity quickly. To guarantee your participation, please visit the eRegistration page: https://www.kmcluster.com/secureorderform.htm. There is a small fee to cover logistical costs, equipment/room rental, luncheon and refreshments. See you March 28th! Most sincerely, KM Cluster www.kmcluster.com -- Please forward this update to colleagues concerned with knowledge management, electronic collaboration, business communities and business performance improvement wishing to join the KM Cluster. It's free. From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Wed Mar 20 03:00:38 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id B845756F79; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 03:00:37 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts10.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.54]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5570456F78 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 03:00:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.228.165.162]) by tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020320111546.IDLJ12727.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@sympatico.ca> for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 06:15:46 -0500 Message-ID: <3C98298C.D9849106@sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 06:17:48 +0000 From: Henry K van Eyken X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] d00p Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org I just received the email below. Thought some of you may like to share it. Henry : Hello, I found this link on the internet, may be it is intresting: http://www.d00p.nl/edu/g67/KLB/projects/IEP/future.htm greets, From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Wed Mar 20 11:16:27 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 84CC056F7D; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:16:26 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk (mail3.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.19]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4FD2356F7D; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:16:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from modem-750.tailslide.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.25.194.238] helo=vaio) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16nlnz-0003w6-00; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:31:27 +0000 Message-ID: <001801c1d045$aba01340$3ef9193e@vaio> From: "Peter Jones" To: , Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] [ANN] GSIX v0.47 Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:30:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Yes, it's _another_ announcement for the latest (absolutely the latest! for today at least) version of GSIX, v0.47. http://www.concept67.fsnet.co.uk/gsix/ Following a fat hint from Jack, I've included a mechanism that (I hope) will allow one to reify predicates so that one can attach properties to the reified node. HTH, -- Peter Jones From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Thu Mar 21 16:37:53 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 83A8856F79; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:37:52 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from pheriche.sun.com (pheriche.sun.com [192.18.98.34]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EC5F456F78 for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:37:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from ha1sca-mail1.SFBay.Sun.COM ([129.145.155.51]) by pheriche.sun.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29305 for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:52:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from sun.com (d-usca14-129-126 [129.145.129.126]) by ha1sca-mail1.SFBay.Sun.COM (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id g2M0qvW08358 for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:52:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3C9A8069.C866716A@sun.com> Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:52:57 -0800 From: Eric Armstrong X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Things be happening!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Eugene is bringing together some way cool ideas. Lee is investigating some cool commonality with DL. Endre Fumes has a pretty cool XML editor in the works. Others (who's pictures I need because I remember faces first, after which I stand a chance of remembering names) are taking trial cuts at a first-generation collaboration system that could evolve into something grand and glorious. Wow. Suddenly I realize that a LOT has been happening on this list. Perhaps not as totally coordinated and single- minded as we might have liked, but really seminal and potentally wonderful things, nonetheless. From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Thu Mar 21 17:32:02 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 74DB056F79; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:32:02 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3689056F78 for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:32:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from pacbell.net ([12.233.136.46]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020322014714.KQYA1147.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@pacbell.net> for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:47:14 +0000 Message-ID: <3C9A8D44.9431388A@pacbell.net> Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:47:48 -0800 From: Gerald Pierce X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Things be happening!! References: <3C9A8069.C866716A@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org So what is the surprise. This is a Guaranteed outcome when high GAD* factor people gather in sincere conversation! * GAD = Give A Damn. Gerald Pierce Q. E. D. Services Eric Armstrong wrote: > > Eugene is bringing together some way cool ideas. > > Lee is investigating some cool commonality with DL. > > Endre Fumes has a pretty cool XML editor in the > works. > > Others (who's pictures I need because I remember > faces first, after which I stand a chance of remembering > names) are taking trial cuts at a first-generation > collaboration system that could evolve into something > grand and glorious. > > Wow. > > Suddenly I realize that a LOT has been happening on > this list. Perhaps not as totally coordinated and single- > minded as we might have liked, but really seminal and > potentally wonderful things, nonetheless. From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Fri Mar 22 08:55:49 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 3839956F79; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:55:49 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from web14404.mail.yahoo.com (web14404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.61]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1445056F78 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:55:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20020322171059.84999.qmail@web14404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.138.13.116] by web14404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:10:59 PST Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:10:59 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Bearden Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Engelbart to be on CNet Radio To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org The "midday show" just started at 11 central time and they announced that they'll be talking to Doug during this show. CNet Radio is available on the net at www.news.com. It is also broadcast in the Bay Area on 910. I assume that is AM. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Mar 25 14:51:37 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id D0EBA56F7C; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:51:36 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.177]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B5BA656F7A for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:51:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from modem-469.kook.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.25.169.213] helo=vaio) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16pdY5-0002rE-00 for ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:06:45 +0000 Message-ID: <001c01c1d451$91d6d6a0$d5a9193e@vaio> From: "Peter Jones" To: Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] New output from Kurzweil at The Edge Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:05:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org www.edge.org Of note are statements like the following: "Kurzweil, an inventor and entrepreneur, has been pushing the technological envelope for years in his field of pattern recognition. Among his many accomplishments, he developed the technology behind the flatbed scanner, and he is a leading expert in speech recognition. In his radical view of the future the operant word is....exponential. For example, "One application of sending billions of nanobots into the brain is full-immersion virtual reality. If you want to be in real reality, the nanobots sit there and do nothing, but if you want to go into virtual reality, the nanobots shut down the signals coming from my real senses, replace them with the signals I would be receiving if I were in the virtual environment, and then my brain feels as if it's in the virtual environment. And you can go there yourself - or, more interestingly you can go there with other people - and you can have everything from sexual and sensual encounters to business negotiations, in full-immersion virtual reality environments that incorporate all of the senses."" Having just been to see the movie A Beautiful Mind, I have to ask Ray where the off switch would be, though. -- Peter Jones ppj@concept67.fsnet.co.uk From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Mar 25 16:41:43 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id CFCFC56F7B; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:41:42 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts17.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.71]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4C7CF56F7A for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:41:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.228.182.138]) by tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020326005657.STXV2746.tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net@sympatico.ca> for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:56:57 -0500 Message-ID: <3C9FC7E2.24F71AF@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:59:14 -0500 From: Henry K van Eyken X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Career on the frontier outpost? References: <001c01c1d451$91d6d6a0$d5a9193e@vaio> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org There could be a career here, for the right person. Fleabyte's right sidebar now lists upcoming conferences, etc. as far as I can see they are relevant to augmentation in a liberal sense. Some of these ame from the ba discussion lists, a number from the ACM site. In future, others may come from other sites as well. To make the lsiting more useful, I began to include some short notes about the content of conferences so that a quick browse may become an informative experience, to show what kind of stuff is going on on the "frontier outposts" (an expression taken from Doug's year-2000 colloquium). It struck me that the column may be made into something vastly more useful if someone actually contacted conference organizers, collected some of the major papers and from this write a, say, biweekly column to bring potentially important developments together and in context with one another. Sodar there is no money in it for the one taking this on, however ... However, from this material may well be produced an annual book of substantial commercial value. People in the world of business, for example, would be keenly interested in good, succinct digests. In other words, there is a career here, a fascinating career that may include speaking engagements for executives and clubs. Yes, there are already futurists, but the reputation here would be to not to be too far out on a limb, to simply stick to what is going on at conferences and gome through screens of critique. That gives the project a good measure of reliability. Advantage for Fleabyte and its readers: costs us nothing for a good service. Advantage for taker: get paid better than Fleabyte can anyway; develop an interdisciplinary outlook. Well ...? Henry From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Mar 25 16:55:28 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id D3B5456F7B; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:55:27 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from post2.inre.asu.edu (post2.inre.asu.edu [129.219.110.73]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 609E856F7A for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:55:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion.post2.inre.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1 #40111) id <0GTK00H0139Q84@asu.edu> for ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:10:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mainex1.asu.edu (mainex1.asu.edu [129.219.10.200]) by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1 #40111) with ESMTP id <0GTK00FH839QS9@asu.edu> for ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:10:38 -0700 (MST) Received: by mainex1.asu.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:10:37 -0700 Content-return: allowed Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:10:36 -0700 From: Michael Crusoe Subject: RE: [ba-unrev-talk] Career on the frontier outpost? To: "'ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_zw8ABMuCVVFLfMGOVXcDRw)" Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --Boundary_(ID_zw8ABMuCVVFLfMGOVXcDRw) Content-type: text/plain Are you talking about a Bootstrap sponsored journal or review? Or more of an independent publication? From what I've seen I agree with your view that there needs to be centralized coverage of Bootstrap related materials. However, in my own research of these conferences, it can be fairly pricey (for me, at least) to attend, or even to get copies of the presented papers. What you describe sounds like a historian who specializes in the present and near past, and idea that certainly appeals to me. Anybody else have any thoughts on this? -- Michael Crusoe Student at large > -----Original Message----- > From: Henry K van Eyken [mailto:vaneyken@sympatico.ca] > Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 5:59 PM > To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org > Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Career on the frontier outpost? > > > There could be a career here, for the right person. > > Fleabyte's right sidebar now lists upcoming conferences, etc. > as far as I > can see they are relevant to augmentation in a liberal sense. > Some of these > ame from the ba discussion lists, a number from the ACM site. > In future, > others may come from other sites as well. > > To make the lsiting more useful, I began to include some > short notes about > the content of conferences so that a quick browse may become > an informative > experience, to show what kind of stuff is going on on the "frontier > outposts" (an expression taken from Doug's year-2000 colloquium). > > It struck me that the column may be made into something > vastly more useful > if someone actually contacted conference organizers, > collected some of the > major papers and from this write a, say, biweekly column to bring > potentially important developments together and in context > with one another. > > Sodar there is no money in it for the one taking this on, however ... > > However, from this material may well be produced an annual book of > substantial commercial value. People in the world of > business, for example, > would be keenly interested in good, succinct digests. In > other words, there > is a career here, a fascinating career that may include > speaking engagements > for executives and clubs. > > Yes, there are already futurists, but the reputation here > would be to not to > be too far out on a limb, to simply stick to what is going on > at conferences > and gome through screens of critique. That gives the project > a good measure > of reliability. > > Advantage for Fleabyte and its readers: costs us nothing for > a good service. > > Advantage for taker: get paid better than Fleabyte can > anyway; develop an > interdisciplinary outlook. > > Well ...? > > Henry > --Boundary_(ID_zw8ABMuCVVFLfMGOVXcDRw) Content-type: text/html Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable RE: [ba-unrev-talk] Career on the frontier outpost?

Are you talking about a Bootstrap sponsored journal = or review? Or more of an independent publication? From what I've seen I = agree with your view that there needs to be centralized coverage of = Bootstrap related materials. However, in my own research of these = conferences, it can be fairly pricey (for me, at least) to attend, or = even to get copies of the presented papers.

What you describe sounds like a historian who = specializes in the present and near past, and idea that certainly = appeals to me.

Anybody else have any thoughts on this?

--
Michael Crusoe
Student at large

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Henry K van Eyken [mailto:vaneyken@sympatico.ca] =
> Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 5:59 PM
> To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org
> Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Career on the frontier = outpost?
>
>
> There could be a career here, for the right = person.
>
> Fleabyte's right sidebar now lists upcoming = conferences, etc.
> as far as I
> can see they are relevant to augmentation in a = liberal sense.
> Some of these
> ame from the ba discussion lists, a number from = the ACM site.
> In future,
> others may come from other sites as = well.
>
> To make the lsiting more useful, I began to = include some
> short notes about
> the content of conferences so that a quick = browse may become
> an informative
> experience, to show what kind of stuff is going = on on the "frontier
> outposts" (an expression taken from Doug's = year-2000 colloquium).
>
> It struck me that the column may be made into = something
> vastly more useful
> if someone actually contacted conference = organizers,
> collected some of the
> major papers and from this write a, say, = biweekly column to bring
> potentially important developments together and = in context
> with one another.
>
> Sodar there is no money in it for the one = taking this on, however ...
>
> However, from this material may well be = produced an annual book of
> substantial commercial value. People in the = world of
> business, for example,
> would be keenly interested in good, succinct = digests. In
> other words, there
> is a career here, a fascinating career that may = include
> speaking engagements
> for executives and clubs.
>
> Yes, there are already futurists, but the = reputation here
> would be to not to
> be too far out on a limb, to simply stick to = what is going on
> at conferences
> and gome through screens of critique. That = gives the project
> a good measure
> of reliability.
>
> Advantage for Fleabyte and its readers: costs = us nothing for
> a good service.
>
> Advantage for taker: get paid better than = Fleabyte can
> anyway; develop an
> interdisciplinary outlook.
>
> Well ...?
>
> Henry
>

= --Boundary_(ID_zw8ABMuCVVFLfMGOVXcDRw)-- From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Mar 25 17:44:44 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 319ED56F7C; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:44:44 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts11.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.55]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BACC656F7B for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:44:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from sympatico.ca ([206.172.229.148]) by tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020326015959.RQBX8254.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@sympatico.ca> for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:59:59 -0500 Message-ID: <3C9FD6A7.FDDFC145@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:02:15 -0500 From: Henry K van Eyken X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Career on the frontier outpost? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Although Doug hopes to be able eventually to get some funding for Fleabyte, it seems best not to count on that. So, at this point I am not suggesting that the writer go on the convention circuit. What I am suggesting is that here is an opportunity to discover what can be accomplished in a gradual way, without commitment. I am suggesting that one soon learns to discern what are the leading papers presented at a conference, that copies be obtained (from web, through help of conference organizers, authors) so the writer can build a proper file on which to draw a column. Initially, they might be mainly in the field of computing (relevant to augmentation, of course, as far as Fleabyte is concerned), but gradually would expand into psych/neutroscience and augmentation aspect of education. Digital augmentation of human beings is the focus of an otherwise multidisciplinary effort. My experience indicates a three-year period for getting pretty good at it. Prerequisite: good writer, learn to be an interesting speaker as well. This is not blue sky. Jeffrey Harrow, for example, worked on something akin to this from his position as an engineer at Compaq. (You'll find him mentioned in Fleabyte.) He collects information from all sorts of sources and much from his following of readers and runs an independent website/newsletter arrangement. His focus is on the future of technology. And he does have an income from speaking engagements. Of course, things need to be properly developed. In our case, Fleabyte would give one an opportunity to cut one's teeth among friends. Henry Michael Crusoe wrote: > > > Are you talking about a Bootstrap sponsored journal or review? Or more > of an independent publication? From what I've seen I agree with your > view that there needs to be centralized coverage of Bootstrap related > materials. However, in my own research of these conferences, it can be > fairly pricey (for me, at least) to attend, or even to get copies of > the presented papers. > > What you describe sounds like a historian who specializes in the > present and near past, and idea that certainly appeals to me. > > Anybody else have any thoughts on this? > > -- > Michael Crusoe > Student at large > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Henry K van Eyken [mailto:vaneyken@sympatico.ca] > > Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 5:59 PM > > To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org > > Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Career on the frontier outpost? > > > > > > There could be a career here, for the right person. > > > > Fleabyte's right sidebar now lists upcoming conferences, etc. > > as far as I > > can see they are relevant to augmentation in a liberal sense. > > Some of these > > ame from the ba discussion lists, a number from the ACM site. > > In future, > > others may come from other sites as well. > > > > To make the lsiting more useful, I began to include some > > short notes about > > the content of conferences so that a quick browse may become > > an informative > > experience, to show what kind of stuff is going on on the "frontier > > outposts" (an expression taken from Doug's year-2000 colloquium). > > > > It struck me that the column may be made into something > > vastly more useful > > if someone actually contacted conference organizers, > > collected some of the > > major papers and from this write a, say, biweekly column to bring > > potentially important developments together and in context > > with one another. > > > > Sodar there is no money in it for the one taking this on, however > ... > > > > However, from this material may well be produced an annual book of > > substantial commercial value. People in the world of > > business, for example, > > would be keenly interested in good, succinct digests. In > > other words, there > > is a career here, a fascinating career that may include > > speaking engagements > > for executives and clubs. > > > > Yes, there are already futurists, but the reputation here > > would be to not to > > be too far out on a limb, to simply stick to what is going on > > at conferences > > and gome through screens of critique. That gives the project > > a good measure > > of reliability. > > > > Advantage for Fleabyte and its readers: costs us nothing for > > a good service. > > > > Advantage for taker: get paid better than Fleabyte can > > anyway; develop an > > interdisciplinary outlook. > > > > Well ...? > > > > Henry > > From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Mar 25 19:36:43 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id DCDD656F7A; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:36:42 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.3]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 28D8256F78 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:36:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.228.165.132]) by tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020326035158.LSVU19900.tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net@sympatico.ca> for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:51:58 -0500 Message-ID: <3C9FF0E6.D6CAD86D@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:54:14 -0500 From: Henry K van Eyken X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Re: [ba-ohs-talk] rough draft of graph model paper References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Eugene. 1. I am taking this to the unrev-talk forum where this really belongs. Happily; the subject still refers to the source thread. Might be a useful feature more generally. 2. Thanks for reference to http://www.eekim.com/ohs/papers/grovesintro/#04 Keeps me learning, but I wouldn't want to write exams! 3. Now, re what you wrote in response to my comments, Eugene Eric Kim wrote: > On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Henry K van Eyken wrote: > > > Initially, my musing led to the suggestion that > > > > (a) we ought to emphasize the value of making better use of the vernacular as > > an intermediary processor (IP) between people slaving in different professional > > and cultural niches (as the introduction to your document indeed tries to do), > > and > > > > (b) that articles ought be accompanied by an indication of what potential > > readers should already know about or understand or some indication of what > > readership an author wishes to address. It used to be that context carries the > > day (as indeed the title of your article does to an extent), but in a world of > > information ever-complexing we must somehow come up with better ways of > > communicating in addition to optimizing the use of hyperlinks. Or we all end up > > being able to communicate effectively only within our narrow niches and will be > > at loss everywhere else. > > Both are interesting points. Do you have some proposed solutions? > > My suspicion is that the solutions to these problems would fall outside > the scope of the OHS itself. That's not to say that these problems fall > outside the scope of Doug's mission. Remember, the OHS is only a small > (but important) part of a tool system, which itself is only a small part > of an augmented human-tool system universe. It's important to think about > the entire universe -- that is what Doug's philosophy is all about. And > if the solutions to the problems you present above are not the OHS's > direct responsibility, the OHS developers must still be aware of those > problems, so they do not inadvertently deaugment those solutions. > Yes, outside scope of OHS; inside scope of ultimate objectives. Doug regards OHS as a sine-qua-non with respect to solving urgent, complex problems and as you have pointed out elsewhere, HyperScope is a major tool for breaking through communication barriers of computer-technological nature (in the "tool system," as Doug has it). Other communication barriers to be addressed - no less essential, to my mind - are within the "human system." I only mentioned optimizing what profit may be gained here from employing the vernacular, but I realize very well that this is easier said than done. Do I have any solutions to propose? you ask. Wish I had any thing substantial, but at least we can be keenly aware of the problem, learn what can be learned and, hopefully, gradually learn to cut a swath through the thicket. So, my answer is for now, let's not overlook the problem, let's be fully aware the problem exists and be on the alert for potential ways of addressing it. Again, that should be proper concern of Fleabyte (Geez, how we need help!!! - and if help is offered, how we need a good way of collaborating, etc.) Well, I think we are of one mind about these things. Closely related also is general ability on a popular level to make good use of the computer, such as for locating information effectively. Interesting here is a contribution Peter Jones pointed to in his Re: [ba-ohs-talk] SUN's Conceptual Indexing Project for Precision Content Retrieval earlier today. And then comes the matter of efficiently evaluating whatever info is retrieved and do so in terms of the greater human good in a world with widely differing conceptions about that (exampli non gratia: Bin Laden). Wow. Henry From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Wed Mar 27 14:14:50 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id C75FB56F7A; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:14:49 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from mail8.svr.pol.co.uk (mail8.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.213]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7D7CA56F78 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:14:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from modem-453.clefairy.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.135.90.197] helo=vaio) by mail8.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16qLvc-0004pe-00 for ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:30:00 +0000 Message-ID: <00a201c1d5de$c4313620$c55a87d9@vaio> From: "Peter Jones" To: References: <4.2.2.20020327085543.00e0ab10@thinkalong.com> Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Re: [ba-ohs-talk] Simple Hierarchical Multi-Perspective viewer Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:28:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org On a surf from that link for Shrimp I came across http://www.csr.uvic.ca/chisel/projects.htm Of interest might be the one at the bottom of the page: Children, Youth, and Internet Use: Exploring the social and individual implications of technologically (digitally) mediated interactions on children and youth. http://web.uvic.ca/~mecht/PhDproject.html Cheers, -- Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Park" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 4:58 PM Subject: [ba-ohs-talk] Simple Hierarchical Multi-Perspective viewer http://www.csr.uvic.ca/shrimpviews/introduction.htm "While SHriMP (Simple Hierarchical Multi-Perspective) was originally designed for visualizing and exploring software architecture, it is language independent and can be used for browsing any information space. In this manual we first demonstrate how SHriMP can be used to visualize and explore Java programs and a knowledge base.We then later discuss how SHriMP can be used for browsing a knowledge base in the Protégé knowledge management tool." ... "As mentioned above, SHriMP can also be used for viewing knowledge bases. The knowledge base example provided in SHriMP was produced using Protégé. Protégé, created at Stanford University, is a tool for the creation, editing, and querying of frame-based ontologies. This example shows how Shrimp can plug into Protégé and read data from it. In this case, Shrimp visualizes the hierarchy based on the slot chosen by the user. To illustrate the flexibility of Shrimp, this demo will show how the structure of the hierarchy can be changed dynamically." "Jambalaya is the keyword we use to describe a project to integrate SHriMP with the Protege tool. " It's free for academic use. I do not know if source code is included. From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Fri Mar 29 13:53:33 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id F18FC56F7B; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:53:32 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts7.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.40]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6E3D056F7A for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:53:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.228.165.104]) by tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020329220851.SXF17738.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@sympatico.ca> for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:08:51 -0500 Message-ID: <3CA4E5F9.FD294230@sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:08:57 -0500 From: Henry K van Eyken X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Re: [ba-ohs-talk] Simple Hierarchical Multi-Perspective viewer References: <4.2.2.20020327085543.00e0ab10@thinkalong.com> <00a201c1d5de$c4313620$c55a87d9@vaio> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Peter. Looks like very interesting material to pursue. Mechthild Maczewski's PhD program is shared between child & youth care and computer science. Her focus is on social effects more than augmentation effects, but it is my sense (from reading Ceci's "On Intelligence") that social effects themselves can enhance intellectual performance. This is just one of many interesting leads to pursue for the e-journal. Hope that one day we have the hands to pursue them. Henry Peter Jones wrote: > On a surf from that link for Shrimp I came across > http://www.csr.uvic.ca/chisel/projects.htm > > Of interest might be the one at the bottom of the page: > Children, Youth, and Internet Use: Exploring the social and individual > implications of technologically (digitally) mediated interactions on > children and youth. > http://web.uvic.ca/~mecht/PhDproject.html > > Cheers, > -- > Peter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jack Park" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 4:58 PM > Subject: [ba-ohs-talk] Simple Hierarchical Multi-Perspective viewer > > http://www.csr.uvic.ca/shrimpviews/introduction.htm > > "While SHriMP (Simple Hierarchical Multi-Perspective) was originally > designed for visualizing and exploring software architecture, it is > language independent and can be used for browsing any information space. > In > this manual we first demonstrate how SHriMP can be used to visualize and > explore Java programs and a knowledge base.We then later discuss how > SHriMP > can be used for browsing a knowledge base in the Protégé knowledge > management tool." > > ... > > "As mentioned above, SHriMP can also be used for viewing knowledge > bases. > The knowledge base example provided in SHriMP was produced using > Protégé. > Protégé, created at Stanford University, is a tool for the creation, > editing, and querying of frame-based ontologies. This example shows how > Shrimp can plug into Protégé and read data from it. In this case, Shrimp > visualizes the hierarchy based on the slot chosen by the user. To > illustrate the flexibility of Shrimp, this demo will show how the > structure > of the hierarchy can be changed dynamically." > > "Jambalaya is the keyword we use to describe a project to integrate > SHriMP > with the Protege tool. " > > It's free for academic use. I do not know if source code is included. From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Sun Mar 31 12:06:53 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 4A05456F7D; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:06:53 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from mail11.svr.pol.co.uk (mail11.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.23]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 431EE56F7C for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:06:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from modem-744.chansey.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.135.66.232] helo=vaio) by mail11.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16rlq4-0002j0-00 for ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:22:08 +0100 Message-ID: <000701c1d8f1$8eae7380$e84287d9@vaio> From: "Peter Jones" To: References: <002901c1d4a5$a613eaa0$9c09b73f@a> <007e01c1d5d6$ce819140$c55a87d9@vaio> <3CA3AA7B.2060707@open.ac.uk> Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] The Agile Virtual Enterprise Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:20:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org > http://www.geocities.com/~tedgoranson/index.html Murray Altheim just pulled up this link to the work of Ted Goranson. I see he has also written a book called the Agile Virtual Enterprise (1999) that seems to have attracted positive reviews (on amazon at least). Has anyone on the list read it? -- Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murray Altheim" To: Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 12:42 AM Subject: [ba-ohs-talk] Introspective Concept Modeling > Has anyone any familiarity with the Sirius-Beta system? I'm > guessing Jack has hit this site at least once. Seems very > interesting, with some visualization features that might be > useful in an OHS-like system. > > > Sirius-Beta: Introspective Concept Modeling > > http://www.geocities.com/~tedgoranson/index.html > > Murray > > ...................................................................... > Murray Altheim > Knowledge Media Institute > The Open University, Milton Keynes, Bucks, MK7 6AA, UK > > In the evening > The rice leaves in the garden > Rustle in the autumn wind > That blows through my reed hut. -- Minamoto no Tsunenobu > >