From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Sun Jul 6 18:18:59 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 7498256FF7; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 18:18:58 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from tomts23-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts23-srv.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.185]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C4F2956FF5 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 18:18:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Montreal-ppp-87950.qc.sympatico.ca ([64.228.170.11]) by tomts23-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP id <20030707014132.TTPO11594.tomts23-srv.bellnexxia.net@Montreal-ppp-87950.qc.sympatico.ca> for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 21:41:32 -0400 Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] XHTML 1.1 and purple numbers From: Henry K van Eyken To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Message-Id: <1057542000.6892.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) Date: 06 Jul 2003 21:41:31 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org I am working on making the Bootstrap site XHMTL standards compliant. There is no problem with meeting XHTML 1.0 Strict standards, but I do run into a problem with XHTML 1.1 Strict. The latter uses the so-called "fragment identifier" instead of . We use these identifiers for Doug's "funny purple numbers." His structural statement identifiers begin with a digit, but it appears that XHTML 1.1 does not allow for leading digits. Am I wrong or am I overlooking something here? The textual materials I have about id's are incomprehensible to me and, hence, no help.. Henry -- Henry K van Eyken From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Sun Jul 6 22:09:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 9A50B56FF7; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:09:25 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from hot.burningchrome.com (cust-216-9-146-10.bton.kiva.net [216.9.146.10]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A3AD656FF5 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:09:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.95] ([192.168.0.95]) by hot.burningchrome.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h675Vta05472 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 00:31:56 -0500 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 00:31:55 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Dent To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] XHTML 1.1 and purple numbers In-Reply-To: <1057542000.6892.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org It looks, unfortunately, like you are correct. The proper definition of an ID in XHTML 1.1 is that of an ID in XML 1.0, which is the same as a NAME in XML 1.0. A NAME starts with a letter, a '_' or an ':' followed by letters, digits, '_', '-', ':', '.' or a few other things. http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml#NT-Name I guess what you can do is prepend the numbers with a constant string, like 'nid' as is done in PurpleWiki (we do both name and id in the anchors for the time being), or perhaps 'sid' if you're numbers are actually structural identifiers. I think requiring IDs to starting with a letter is a _horrible_ idea as there is also a requirement that IDs be unique through the document. It's much easier to create identifiers that have some longevity with just numbers.... On 6 Jul 2003, Henry K van Eyken wrote: > I am working on making the Bootstrap site XHMTL standards compliant. > There is no problem with meeting XHTML 1.0 Strict standards, but I do > run into a problem with XHTML 1.1 Strict. The latter uses the so-called > "fragment identifier" instead of name="whatever">. > > We use these identifiers for Doug's "funny purple numbers." His > structural statement identifiers begin with a digit, but it appears that > XHTML 1.1 does not allow for leading digits. > > Am I wrong or am I overlooking something here? The textual materials I > have about id's are incomprehensible to me and, hence, no help.. > > Henry > -- Chris Dent http://www.burningchrome.com/~cdent/ then i fantasized the future i want..i wanna be walkin in a crowd smiling n luffin..waving at evryone i know..no one is faking it..no one has hatred hidden in them..evryone's honest frank cool and easy.. --squidz a bitch From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Sun Jul 6 22:49:59 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id DCB8D56FF7; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:49:58 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from ncws.com (mail.ncws.com [207.231.66.140]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7BE8456FF5 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:49:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nootka [207.231.66.85] by ncws.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.12) id AF4A1BD30110; Sun, 06 Jul 2003 23:12:26 -0700 From: blincoln To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] XHTML 1.1 and purple numbers Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 23:12:09 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200307062312.09785.blincoln@ssesco.com> X-Declude-Sender: blincoln@ssesco.com [207.231.66.85] X-Declude-Spoolname: D0f4a1bd30110a7fb.SMD Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org On Sunday 06 July 2003 10:31 pm, Chris Dent wrote: > A NAME starts with a letter, a '_' or an ':' followed by letters, > digits, '_', '-', ':', '.' or a few other things. On a related note.. Something I discovered to my horror recently is that the definition of names for CSS classes does not allow underbars. I had just blithely assumed it did and implemented sets of classes which looked like: title title_sub title_pre title_author title_date and so on, using the underbar as a nice way to group CSS entries into sets. Despite it being against the rules as I can find them, this is supported by the major browsers at this time. A friend of mine (ML), investigated this issue and came up with what appears to be the root of this decision, which dates back to the CERN days of SGML. ML wrote the following: ---- See: http://devedge.netscape.com/viewsource/2001/css-underscores/ and: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/syndata.html Apparently "title\_page" would be acceptable in this syntax. "The underscore is not in RCS (SGML's Reference Concrete Syntax), and therefore not in HTML element names and attributes, and also not in XML, so that was a good candidate to keep out of the identifier syntax and reserve for something else." - Bert Bos - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/1997Feb/0116.html and: http://ref.cern.ch/CERN/CNL/2001/001/tp_history/ "At the beginning of 1985 [...] Berglund took the wise step of introducing directly the reference concrete syntax of SGML... Berglund published the first edition of the CERN SGML User's Guide in October 1986." There you have it. That's a quote from CERN, where Tim Berners-Lee worked. So your headache today was brought to you by Anders Berglund nearly 17 years ago, on October, 1986. ---- Ugh. Who needs readable code anyway! bcl From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Jul 7 02:42:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id C29DD56FF7; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 02:42:43 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts10.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.54]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 109BE56FF5 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 02:42:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Montreal-ppp-86766.qc.sympatico.ca ([64.228.165.97]) by tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP id <20030707100518.UWAO23576.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@Montreal-ppp-86766.qc.sympatico.ca> for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:05:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] XHTML 1.1 and purple numbers From: Henry K van Eyken To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org In-Reply-To: <200307062312.09785.blincoln@ssesco.com> References: <200307062312.09785.blincoln@ssesco.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Message-Id: <1057572316.1652.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) Date: 07 Jul 2003 06:05:16 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Interesting bit of history. As a newbie, I couldn't help but naturally run into the "underscore problem," but quickly found the XHTML team themselves used hyphens (e.g. "background-color" instead of "background_color"). I used Chris's way of doing things by leading off the structural statement numbers with ssn, e.g. ssn02A. In whatever software follows Doug's Augment, this notation might be used for an easily traceable distinction between the sid and the ssn. Of course, this will have to pass Doug, but it seems well that the OHS/Hyperscape remain on good footing with W3C standards in the interest of some future integration. Henry (geez, what am I doing here in the field of experts?) On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 02:12, blincoln wrote: > On Sunday 06 July 2003 10:31 pm, Chris Dent wrote: > > > A NAME starts with a letter, a '_' or an ':' followed by letters, > > digits, '_', '-', ':', '.' or a few other things. > > On a related note.. > > Something I discovered to my horror recently is that the definition of names > for CSS classes does not allow underbars. I had just blithely assumed it did > and implemented sets of classes which looked like: > > title > title_sub > title_pre > title_author > title_date > > and so on, using the underbar as a nice way to group CSS entries into sets. > Despite it being against the rules as I can find them, this is supported by > the major browsers at this time. > > A friend of mine (ML), investigated this issue and came up with what appears > to be the root of this decision, which dates back to the CERN days of SGML. > > > ML wrote the following: > > ---- > > See: > > http://devedge.netscape.com/viewsource/2001/css-underscores/ > > and: > > http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/syndata.html > > Apparently "title\_page" would be acceptable in this syntax. > > "The underscore is not in RCS (SGML's Reference Concrete Syntax), and > therefore not in HTML element names and attributes, and also not in XML, so > that was a good candidate to keep out of the identifier syntax and reserve > for something else." - Bert Bos - > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/1997Feb/0116.html > > and: > > http://ref.cern.ch/CERN/CNL/2001/001/tp_history/ > > "At the beginning of 1985 [...] Berglund took the wise step of introducing > directly the reference concrete syntax of SGML... > > Berglund published the first edition of the CERN SGML User's Guide in October > 1986." > > There you have it. That's a quote from CERN, where Tim Berners-Lee worked. > So your headache today was brought to you by Anders Berglund nearly 17 years > ago, on October, 1986. > ---- > > Ugh. Who needs readable code anyway! > > bcl -- Henry K van Eyken From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Jul 7 09:32:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 6A5B156FF7; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:32:50 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AC7DA56FF5 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:32:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Bowerbird@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id w.1aa.171bd8df (18707); Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:55:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Bowerbird@aol.com Message-ID: <1aa.171bd8df.2c3afffa@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:55:22 EDT Subject: re: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] XHTML 1.1 and purple numbers To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org, Bowerbird@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org blincon said: > "At the beginning of 1985 [...] > Berglund took the wise step of introducing > directly the reference concrete syntax of SGML... and don't you especially hate it when the act of robbing you of what you want to do is labeled as a "wise step"... :+) -bowerbird From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Sun Jul 13 06:49:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 5143C5700A; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 06:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from ms4.lga2.nytimes.com (ms4.lga2.nytimes.com [199.239.138.148]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 997B756FF5 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 06:49:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web39t.prvt.nytimes.com (web39t.prvt.nytimes.com [10.5.101.139]) by ms4.lga2.nytimes.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAE3DB21CA for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:11:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by web39t.prvt.nytimes.com (Postfix, from userid 4040) id 4765A84BA; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:11:57 -0400 (EDT) From: garyrichmond@rcn.com To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] NYTimes.com Article: Fighting for the Right to Communicate Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20030713141157.4765A84BA@web39t.prvt.nytimes.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:11:57 -0400 (EDT) Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org This article from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by garyrichmond@rcn.com. FYI: [from the article]Two weeks ago, the California Supreme Court overturned two lower court decisions and sided with Mr. Hamidi rather than Intel, arguing that Intel could not properly use state trespass laws to block Mr. Hamidi's e-mail messages since its property had not been damaged by them. Already, the ruling has come to be viewed as a landmark decision affecting the future of the Internet. Other states are likely to follow California's legal precedent, according to lawyers, legal scholars and cyberspace rights advocates. The decision is not expected to be appealed to the United States Supreme Court, since "trespass" is a state issue. garyrichmond@rcn.com /-------------------- advertisement -----------------------\ Explore more of Starbucks at Starbucks.com. http://www.starbucks.com/default.asp?ci=1015 \----------------------------------------------------------/ Fighting for the Right to Communicate July 13, 2003 By JILL ANDRESKY FRASER IN its simplest terms, this is all about one man, one company and six e-mail messages. Oh yes, and one lawsuit, which took nearly five years to wind its way through the California court system. Yet the Intel Corporation v. Hamidi never has been all that simple. It originated in a battle against Intel, the giant semiconductor manufacturer, by Kourosh Kenneth Hamidi, known as Ken, who has spent eight years trying to rally employees at Intel, his former employer, to resist what he considers abusive workplace practices. Mr. Hamidi, who was fired by Intel in 1995 for what it terms cause, sent six e-mail messages after his departure to thousands of company employees, prompting Intel to sue him for trespassing. Over the last few years, the case has assumed importance far beyond one man and one company. A range of public interest activists, cyberlaw experts and labor organizers believed that the suit's decision, if it favored Intel, would restrict free speech and other activities that people now take for granted on the Internet. Business leaders like the National Association of Manufacturers sided with Intel, arguing that the company had the right to block the electronic transmissions since they passed through Intel's private property. Two weeks ago, the California Supreme Court overturned two lower court decisions and sided with Mr. Hamidi rather than Intel, arguing that Intel could not properly use state trespass laws to block Mr. Hamidi's e-mail messages since its property had not been damaged by them. Already, the ruling has come to be viewed as a landmark decision affecting the future of the Internet. Other states are likely to follow California's legal precedent, according to lawyers, legal scholars and cyberspace rights advocates. The decision is not expected to be appealed to the United States Supreme Court, since "trespass" is a state issue. The consequences of this victory, meanwhile, are equally great for Mr. Hamidi, who has struggled against enormous odds, in the face of public ridicule, financial ruin and a number of stinging legal defeats. With the California Supreme Court's decision, he has quickly become a symbol of initiatives for cyberspace rights and fair working conditions. If life were a 1940's movie, the hero of this man-against-the-system drama might be played by Gregory Peck. But at the center of this legal maelstrom is a deceptively ordinary looking 56-year-old man, who lives in Citrus Heights, Calif., a suburb of Sacramento, and now works as a compliance officer for the state's Franchise Tax Board. His background was scarcely ordinary, however. Born in Tehran, Mr. Hamidi spent 11 years during the 1960's and 70's as an officer and instructor in Iran's air force, struggling to be released from military service and to win permission to emigrate to the United States. "Living under the shah's dictatorship, I used to watch John Wayne movies and dream about freedom," he recently recalled. "I remember being on the plane, finally flying to the U.S. with my wife and our 3 1/2-year-old daughter and telling them, `I will work. I'll be able to vote. I'll be free. Our children will be free.' " That was 1978. The Hamidis settled in Los Angeles, where their struggle became a financial one. "In the beginning, I worked three jobs," Mr. Hamidi said. "I'd wake up at 3 o'clock in the morning, because I had a newspaper delivery route. I was 31 years old and I was delivering newspapers. Then I'd rush home, shower and get dressed in a suit and tie, and go to my next job, which was managing a small, bilingual travel agency." After that job, he would head home for dinner and a change of clothes, and then on to the evening shift at a liquor store. Along the way, Mr. Hamidi put himself through college, majoring in engineering; eventually he earned an M.B.A. He remembers 1986 as a glorious year. "I became a citizen," he said. "I received my engineering degree. And I got hired by Intel." But in September 1990, the glorious days ended when the car that he was driving home from a work-related conference was hit from behind. Mr. Hamidi was left in chronic pain with shoulder and neck injuries. Although the injuries resisted treatment, he continued to work for more than a year, often putting in what he said were 16-hour workdays. "I was sleep-deprived because I was working so hard to keep up with my workload and I was in so much pain," he said. "I was fainting at the office. I became clinically depressed." In February 1992, he took a prolonged medical leave. Mr. Hamidi filed a claim for workers' compensation benefits, contending that he had work-related physical and mental injuries. His claim was initially granted, but it was overturned upon appeal from Intel. Mr. Hamidi said he had unsuccessfully tried to return to his job. Chuck Mulloy, an Intel spokesman, would not comment on specifics, noting only that the company dismissed the engineer for cause in 1995. Living with chronic pain and constant financial anxieties, Mr. Hamidi said he was hospitalized twice, under a suicide watch. "I was losing everything I had," he said. Unable to find another job, with little income except state disability payments, Mr. Hamidi declared personal bankruptcy in 1997. Despite the magnitude of his personal problems, Mr. Hamidi found his calling in a growing determination to publicize his accusations about excessive job demands and unfair employment practices at Intel. In 1995, he started an organization that soon came to be known as FACE Intel, for former and current employees of Intel, and the next year he developed a Web site, www.faceintel .com, to disseminate information, including accounts that contended there was a connection between job stress at Intel and employee suicides and heart attacks. Mr. Mulloy at Intel said such statements "are examples of the absurdity and the falsehoods that Mr. Hamidi continues to perpetuate." Mr. Hamidi also filed a wrongful termination lawsuit against Intel, but later dropped it for lack of resources.   TO some people Mr. Hamidi was considered crazy or vengeful. But his movement attracted attention. He conducted numerous interviews with reporters. He handed out leaflets to students at universities where Intel was recruiting. And at some point, he obtained two diskettes containing an electronic file of Intel's employee telephone book. (According to Mr. Hamidi, this came to him through the mail in an unmarked envelope.) The rest, as they say, is history. As the California Supreme Court noted in its 4-to-3 decision on June 30, the facts of Intel v. Hamidi are "simple and undisputed." On six occasions, over a period totaling 21 months, Mr. Hamidi sent "a single e-mail message to between 8,000 and 35,000 Intel employees, highlighting what Mr. Hamidi considered to be Intel's abusive and discriminatory practices," the decision of the majority of the court said. He suggested that employees seek jobs elsewhere, and he solicited participation in FACE Intel. During this time, according Mr. Mulloy, the Intel spokesman, the company employed 65,000 to 70,000 people. To put it mildly, the e-mail campaign attracted Intel's attention. "From Intel's perspective, Mr. Hamidi intended to disrupt employees by making inflammatory statements concerning Intel as an employer," Mr. Mulloy said. "In March of 1998, after a few of these e-mails had come, we received a number of complaints from employees. The kind of comments we would hear were, `Why are we getting these at work?' `Can't you stop him?' We sent Mr. Hamidi a letter demanding that he refrain from sending them. He replied to us and refused to do so. He then sent more." Intel tried to block Mr. Hamidi's messages but was only partially successful. By switching computers, Mr. Hamidi managed to evade the company's roadblocks. There is no evidence, however, that he sent additional e-mail messages to any recipient who asked him to desist. Intel sued on two counts in 1998. One, later dropped, contended that the messages were a nuisance to Intel and its employees. The second was a "trespass to chattel" claim against Mr. Hamidi, that accused him, among other things, of disrupting Intel through unauthorized use of its computer system. "We disagree with everything he says about Intel," Mr. Mulloy said. "We think he's wrong. But we never did anything to try to prevent him from setting up his Web site or leafleting at universities. "When someone is using our e-mail system, though, our thinking was that we had certain rights." It was now autumn 1998. Mr. Hamidi was unemployed, had been through bankruptcy and was struggling to support a family of four on occasional odd jobs and his disability payments. It wasn't until late 2001 that he found his state job. Soon after he was sued by Intel in 1998, however, Mr. Hamidi attracted a crucial supporter, William M. McSwain, a former Marine then in his second year at Harvard Law School and an editor of The Harvard Law Review. Listening to National Public Radio one day, he heard a mention of the Intel case that caught his attention. "This was an unusual use of the trespass-to-chattel tort," he said. "I thought the case might have broad implications." He decided to look into the case, thinking it might produce an article for the law review. "The more I found out, the more I wanted to help this guy. He was broke, fighting his own battle, getting beaten up and nobody was helping him."   MR. McSWAIN researched the issues and concluded that Intel had not demonstrated damage to the chattel, which in this case would be the computer system. "Intel was just claiming a more general kind of damage, through the loss of employees' productivity." He said that he eventually came to believe that Mr. Hamidi's case was the most important Internet dispute ever litigated. "If Intel could use trespass laws, without demonstrating any damage to its equipment," he said, "then this would have huge implications for all kinds of communications taking place on the Internet." The article that Mr. McSwain published in the May 1999 issue of The Harvard Law Review validated Mr. Hamidi's case. "It is ironic," he wrote, "that a technological giant such as Intel, which has helped to usher in and has greatly benefited from the cyberspace age, now expects the state to protect it from a creature of its making." The article attracted attention. But by the time it appeared, Mr. Hamidi had lost the first round. California's Superior Court granted Intel's request on the trespass to chattel claim and issued a permanent injunction against Mr. Hamidi. Mr. Hamidi appealed. "They thought I was this bozo, coming here from some weird country. `He is helpless,' `He will come to his knees.' " Instead, he went out of his way to attract public attention for his cause. That included a horseback ride to deliver a floppy disk to Intel's headquarters in Santa Clara, Calif., and a ride there in a horse-drawn carriage to deliver 40,000 printed copies of an e-mail message to company employees to publicize the fact that the court had barred him from communicating to Intel workers on the Internet. It helped that he knew he was no longer alone. Through what seemed to him the hand of God, he had Mr. McSwain, who during his final year of law school was on an internship with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a San Francisco-based nonprofit public-interest and civil-liberties group. There, Mr. McSwain wrote the substance of a brief filed by the foundation on the behalf of Mr. Hamidi. "To us, it seemed very clear that if Intel won this case we'd all be at risk of losing the fundamental value of the Internet, which is its openness," said Lee Tien, a senior lawyer for the foundation. "Imagine what could happen if at any time any site could say, `We don't want you to visit, we don't want you to search, we don't want your e-mail.' The Internet would fragment." Nevertheless, the California Court of Appeal in Sacramento in December 2001 upheld the lower court and supported Intel. "That was the proper decision," argued Richard A. Epstein, a professor at the University of Chicago Law School and the author of a brief, filed on behalf of a number of business groups, in Intel's support in Mr. Hamidi's appeal to the California Supreme Court. "This wasn't comparable to Mr. Hamidi standing outside Intel's property and shouting at employees using a bullhorn. It was as though he took Intel's bullhorn to do it." But the appeals court was split on its decision, 2 to 1, with a dissent coming from one of the state's most influential judges, Justice Daniel M. Kolkey. By now, Mr. McSwain was a lawyer, working at the Dechert firm in Philadelphia. With 700 lawyers and a large corporate law practice, Dechert might have seemed an unlikely firm to support Mr. Hamidi's case. But the young lawyer convinced his colleagues that this was a case "about the soul of the Internet," as he put it. He said he believed that if the decision in favor of Intel were allowed to stand, it would ultimately hurt business by lowering productivity and impeding commerce. His colleagues at Dechert agreed. With a strong First Amendment practice, the firm also supported the freedom of speech aspects of Mr. Hamidi's case. They agreed to allow Mr. McSwain and another junior lawyer, F. Gregory Lastowka, to work on the case pro bono.   THE pairing proved to be a strong one. Mr. McSwain handled the legal theories, relations with the media, and of course, dealings with Mr. Hamidi, whom he calls an ideal client, rational and calm. Mr. Lastowka, a cyberlaw expert, coordinated briefs filed on Mr. Hamidi's behalf and wrote the response to Intel's arguments. The American Civil Liberties Union filed a separate brief, as did more than three dozen professors of intellectual property and computer law. Support also came from the Center for Internet and Society at Stanford Law School, from the A.F.L.-C.I.O. and from the Service Employees International Union. "There was a lot of concern among union organizers about the lower court decisions," said Stacey M. Leyton, a lawyer with Altshuler, Berzon, Nussbaum, Rubin & Demain in San Francisco, which worked with the A.F.L.-C.I.O. and the service employees union. "Our concern was that, if the lower court decisions were left standing, this could become an important tool for employers to use against union activities." The decision on June 30 came at the very end of the 90-day period to issue a ruling after oral arguments. Mr. McSwain knew that the decision was likely to be posted at 10 a.m. Pacific time, so back in Philadelphia, he grabbed a sandwich at Dechert's cafeteria and sat in front of his computer screen, staring at the Court's Web site and waiting for the notice. Mr. Hamidi was in his office at the Franchise Board, training two employees, but keeping an eye out for an e-mail message from his lawyer or the court. When the notice came, "judgment reversed," Mr. McSwain sent out a two-word e-mail message to his client and colleagues, "We Won." Mr. Hamidi saw his computer's message light blinking and asked his co-workers for five minutes to himself. He called Mary, his wife of 32 years, could not reach her and left a message on the answering machine. "I don't know how being electrocuted feels," he said, "but there were shocks going all through my body." His phone started ringing with calls from reporters. He received a voice-mail message from his wife, telling him that she had been unable to call back at first because she had been crying so hard she could not speak. Eventually, he asked his supervisor for permission to some time off. Despite broad support for the decision, there are those who believe this is a dangerous legal decision, one that will open the floodgates to spam, erode employers' powers and give unions free rein to woo members by e-mail. As part of a longstanding policy, Intel would not allow the law firm that handled the case, Morrison & Foerster, to comment on the decision. But in one of its briefs for Intel, the firm wrote that the basic issue was property rights. "Ownership of private property carries with it the right to prevent others from using this private property to harm the owner," it said. The day-to-day consequences are not yet clear. "I don't know if the downside from this decision is small or large, but I do know this: There's no upside," said Professor Epstein of the University of Chicago, who worked closely with the firm while writing a brief for Semiconductor Industry Association and other business groups. As for Mr. Hamidi and his relationship with Intel, "The ball is in his court," said Mr. Malloy, Intel's spokesman. "If he decides to continue spamming us, we will have to evaluate our options." Mr. McSwain said, "I don't want to speculate about what Ken will do." He said the original injunction will remain in place until 30 days after the Supreme Court's ruling "and the one thing I'm certain is, Ken won't do anything during that period." If, later, he does send more e-mails, his lawyer said, " Intel may go after him as hard or harder than ever." The California Supreme Court said in its majority opinion that depending on what happens next, Intel might have the option of suing for interference with its business prospects, defamation or infliction of emotional distress. For now, Mr. Hamidi will not disclose his plans. But he does give some hints. "I have done my part for the American people," he said. "Now I am back to the fight for Intel's employees and other working men and women."   http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/13/technology/13CASE.html?ex=1059105517&ei=1&en=fabcd61424f6eb13 --------------------------------- Get Home Delivery of The New York Times Newspaper. Imagine reading The New York Times any time & anywhere you like! Leisurely catch up on events & expand your horizons. Enjoy now for 50% off Home Delivery! Click here: http://www.nytimes.com/ads/nytcirc/index.html HOW TO ADVERTISE --------------------------------- For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with The New York Times on the Web, please contact onlinesales@nytimes.com or visit our online media kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help@nytimes.com. Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Sun Jul 13 17:30:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 5348D57005; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:30:08 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A00EB56FF5 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:30:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 207-237-200-81.c3-0.23d-ubr1.nyr-23d.ny.cable.rcn.com ([207.237.200.81] helo=rcn.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 19bra8-0005d9-00; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:52:44 -0400 Message-ID: <3F11FEDB.60309@rcn.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:52:43 -0400 From: Gary Richmond User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: INTERNATIONAL DISCUSSION GROUP , cg , ba Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] [Fwd: [WDN co-learners] Don't get mad, get political] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org FYI Forwarded from the Co-learners list, the approach is summarized in this short article's conclusion: >'Government Information Awareness' . . . is based on a simple proposition: if governments >now feel entitled to keep us under cyber-surveillance, why not use software >tools to keep them under surveillance too? The MIT folks are building a >system which will collate all publicly available information about all >public officials in the US. > >We could do the same for the UK. Imagine a site that would automatically >collate information about MPs' financial interests, voting behaviour, >Commons attendance, speeches, publications, campaign literature, friends, >attentiveness to constituents etc and make it available on the web? Later we >could extend it to cover corporate bosses and the quangocracy. > >Our rulers might then begin to realise that accountability is a two-way >street. Don't get mad, get political John Naughton Sunday July 13, 2003 The Observer Here's the unpalatable truth: software has become political. It's unpalatable because most engineers detest politics as the epitome of the hypocrisy and muddle they sought to escape by choosing a trade that values consistency and logic. But it was inevitable that the two worlds would intersect as soon as the web became a mass medium. Control of information has always been a tool of regimes, and anything that threatens to loosen that grip will be resisted. Note that this isn't just about content. Some of the content published on the web - whether in the form of subversive information, political discourse or entertainment - does attract condemnation, prosecution, suppression or worse. Content certainly has a political dimension. But content isn't software, so why is that political? Answer: because software determines the architecture of cyberspace, and thus determines what you can do with and in the space. For example, the software facilitates anonymity and free innovation. The first gives us unparalleled freedom of expression - and spam; the second enables disruptive innovations such as instant messaging, streaming media, file-swapping and internet telephony - all of which threaten the established order. The establishment responds by running to the courts, which is why there are three Bills about spam doing the rounds of the US Congress - and why there exists a statute that grossly restricts freedoms to write certain kinds of software. This is politics with both small and large Ps. Because geeks don't like politics, they tend to avoid it. Big mistake. The lesson of recent history is that if you don't want the established order to nobble legislators and enact daft, repressive or biased laws, then you have to mix it with the politicos. The software community needs to start thinking like the environmental movement, and develop some of the same political adroitness. It also needs to start using its technical skills. Two heartening examples have just come to light. The first is Ed Felten's response to the US Supreme Court ruling that publicly-funded libraries must use filtering software to control users' access to the net. The problem is that commercial filtering software is opaque and unaccountable - the implicit values which determine what's blocked are secret and the companies are very aggressive about not disclosing them. Why not then, says Ed, write some open-source software that librarians can use? That way, they can comply with the law, but in a way that enables them to make professional judgements about the filtering to be applied. The other initiative comes from the MIT Media Lab. It's called 'Government Information Awareness' and is based on a simple proposition: if governments now feel entitled to keep us under cyber-surveillance, why not use software tools to keep them under surveillance too? The MIT folks are building a system which will collate all publicly available information about all public officials in the US. We could do the same for the UK. Imagine a site that would automatically collate information about MPs' financial interests, voting behaviour, Commons attendance, speeches, publications, campaign literature, friends, attentiveness to constituents etc and make it available on the web? Later we could extend it to cover corporate bosses and the quangocracy. Our rulers might then begin to realise that accountability is a two-way street. john.naughton@observer.co.uk http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,6903,997037,00.html From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Sun Jul 13 18:50:22 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id AAB9F57005; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:50:21 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts15.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.3]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D890356FF5 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Montreal-ppp-86830.qc.sympatico.ca ([64.228.165.161]) by tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP id <20030714021301.OAMS22600.tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net@Montreal-ppp-86830.qc.sympatico.ca> for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:13:01 -0400 Subject: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] [Fwd: [WDN co-learners] Don't get mad, get political] From: Henry K van Eyken To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org In-Reply-To: <3F11FEDB.60309@rcn.com> References: <3F11FEDB.60309@rcn.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Message-Id: <1058148778.1522.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) Date: 13 Jul 2003 22:12:59 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Thanks, Gary. That's good to know. Henry On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 20:52, Gary Richmond wrote: > FYI Forwarded from the Co-learners list, the approach is summarized in this short article's conclusion: > > >'Government Information Awareness' . . . is based on a simple proposition: if governments > >now feel entitled to keep us under cyber-surveillance, why not use software > >tools to keep them under surveillance too? The MIT folks are building a > >system which will collate all publicly available information about all > >public officials in the US. > > > >We could do the same for the UK. Imagine a site that would automatically > >collate information about MPs' financial interests, voting behaviour, > >Commons attendance, speeches, publications, campaign literature, friends, > >attentiveness to constituents etc and make it available on the web? Later we > >could extend it to cover corporate bosses and the quangocracy. > > > >Our rulers might then begin to realise that accountability is a two-way > >street. > > > > Don't get mad, get political > > John Naughton > Sunday July 13, 2003 > The Observer > > Here's the unpalatable truth: software has become political. It's > unpalatable because most engineers detest politics as the epitome of the > hypocrisy and muddle they sought to escape by choosing a trade that values > consistency and logic. But it was inevitable that the two worlds would > intersect as soon as the web became a mass medium. Control of information > has always been a tool of regimes, and anything that threatens to loosen > that grip will be resisted. > Note that this isn't just about content. Some of the content published on > the web - whether in the form of subversive information, political discourse > or entertainment - does attract condemnation, prosecution, suppression or > worse. Content certainly has a political dimension. > > But content isn't software, so why is that political? Answer: because > software determines the architecture of cyberspace, and thus determines what > you can do with and in the space. For example, the software facilitates > anonymity and free innovation. The first gives us unparalleled freedom of > expression - and spam; the second enables disruptive innovations such as > instant messaging, streaming media, file-swapping and internet telephony - > all of which threaten the established order. > > The establishment responds by running to the courts, which is why there are > three Bills about spam doing the rounds of the US Congress - and why there > exists a statute that grossly restricts freedoms to write certain kinds of > software. This is politics with both small and large Ps. > > Because geeks don't like politics, they tend to avoid it. Big mistake. The > lesson of recent history is that if you don't want the established order to > nobble legislators and enact daft, repressive or biased laws, then you have > to mix it with the politicos. The software community needs to start thinking > like the environmental movement, and develop some of the same political > adroitness. > > It also needs to start using its technical skills. Two heartening examples > have just come to light. The first is Ed Felten's response to the US Supreme > Court ruling that publicly-funded libraries must use filtering software to > control users' access to the net. The problem is that commercial filtering > software is opaque and unaccountable - the implicit values which determine > what's blocked are secret and the companies are very aggressive about not > disclosing them. Why not then, says Ed, write some open-source software that > librarians can use? That way, they can comply with the law, but in a way > that enables them to make professional judgements about the filtering to be > applied. > > The other initiative comes from the MIT Media Lab. It's called 'Government > Information Awareness' and is based on a simple proposition: if governments > now feel entitled to keep us under cyber-surveillance, why not use software > tools to keep them under surveillance too? The MIT folks are building a > system which will collate all publicly available information about all > public officials in the US. > > We could do the same for the UK. Imagine a site that would automatically > collate information about MPs' financial interests, voting behaviour, > Commons attendance, speeches, publications, campaign literature, friends, > attentiveness to constituents etc and make it available on the web? Later we > could extend it to cover corporate bosses and the quangocracy. > > Our rulers might then begin to realise that accountability is a two-way > street. > > john.naughton@observer.co.uk > http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,6903,997037,00.html > > > > -- Henry K van Eyken From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Jul 14 12:57:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 2323757005; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:57:49 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from smtp03.wlv.untd.com (smtp03.wlv.untd.com [209.247.163.66]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 81AE956FF7 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:57:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 13427 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2003 20:20:26 -0000 Received: from dsc02-oav-ca-3-157.rasserver.net (HELO netzero.net) (205.184.115.157) by smtp03.wlv.untd.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2003 20:20:26 -0000 Message-ID: <3F13119F.5030305@netzero.net> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:25:03 -0700 From: "John J. Deneen" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] GET POLITICAL: Government Information Awareness or Shooting Ourselves in the Foot? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060809050303070202030703" Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org --------------060809050303070202030703 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Government Information Awareness Government Information Awareness draws its inspiration from: Total Information Awareness (TIA) System Mission * To empower citizens by providing a single, comprehensive, easy-to-use repository of information on individuals, organizations, and corporations related to the government of the United States of America. * To allow citizens to submit intelligence about government-related issues, while maintaining their anonymity. To allow members of the government a chance to participate in the process. Shooting Ourselves in the Foot ? Grandiose Schemes for Electronic Eavesdropping May Hurt More Than They Help E.G., "OBJECTIVES: (1) Development of revolutionary technology for ultra-large all-source information repositories and associated privacy protection technologies. (2) Development of collaboration, automation, and cognitive aids technologies that allow humans and machines to think together about complicated and complex problems more efficiently and effectively. (3) Development and implementation of an end-to-end, closed-loop prototype system to aid in countering terrorism through prevention by integrating technology and components from existing DARPA programs such as: Genoa, EELD (Evidence Extraction and Link Discovery), WAE (Wargaming the Asymmetric Environment), TIDES (Translingual Information Detection, Extraction and Summarization), HID (Human Identification at Distance), Bio-Surveillance; as well as programs resulting from the first two areas of this BAA and other programs." "Repository Issues: The National Security Community has a need for very large scale databases covering comprehensive information about all potential terrorist threats; those who are planning, supporting or preparing to carry out such events; potential plans; and potential targets. In the context of this BAA, the term "database" is intended to convey a new kind of extremely large, omni-media, virtually-centralized, and semantically-rich information repository that is not constrained by today's limited commercial database products -- we use "database" for lack of a more descriptive term. DARPA seeks innovative technologies needed to architect, populate, and exploit such a database for combating terrorism. Key metrics include the amount of total information that is potentially covered, the utility of its data structures for data entry and use by humans and machines in searching and browsing, data integration, and capability to automatically populate, and the completeness, correctness, and timeliness of the information when used for predictive analysis and modeling in exploiting the information in these repositories. It is anticipated this will require revolutionary new technology." "The database envisioned is of an unprecedented scale, will most likely be distributed, must be capable of being continuously updated, and must support both autonomous and semi-automated analysis. The latter requirement implies that the representation used must, to the greatest extent possible, be interpretable by both algorithms and human analysts. The database must support change detection and be able to execute automated procedures implied by new information. Because of expected growth and adaptation needs, the effective schema must be adaptable by the user so that as new sources of information, analytical methods, or representations arise, the representation of data may be re-structured without great cost. If distributed, the database may require new search methods to answer complex, less than specific queries across physical implementations and new automated methods for maintaining consistency. The reduced signature and misinformation introduced by terrorists who are attempting to hide and deceive imply that uncertainty must be represented in some way. To protect the privacy of individuals not affiliated with terrorism, DARPA seeks technologies for controlling automated search and exploitation algorithms and for purging data structures appropriately. Business rules are required to enforce security policy and views appropriate for the viewer's role." "The potential sources of information about possible terrorist activities will include extensive existing databases. Innovative technologies are sought for treating these databases as a virtual, centralized, grand database. This will require technologies for automatically determining schemas, access methods and controls, and translation of complex English language queries into the appropriate language for the relevant databases." "DARPA currently has on-going research programs aimed at language translation, information extraction from text, and multi-modal biometric technologies. These component technologies will be used to feed the Information Awareness database but must be augmented by other technologies and new sources of information to dramatically increase the coverage of counter-terrorism information. These other technologies include but are not limited to innovative new methods of database integration, structured information authoring, and exploitation of integrated data streams. Non-traditional methods of identifying and monitoring terrorist activity are anticipated. Populating a database with information derived from masked or deceptive behavior by an adversary is a challenging technical problem. DARPA invites new ideas for novel information sources and methods that amplify terrorist signatures and enable appropriate response." "Collaboration, Automation And Cognitive Aids Issues: DARPA will be developing technology to support collaborative work by cross-organizational teams of intelligence and policy analysts and operators as they develop models and simulations to aid in understanding the terrorist threat, generate a complete set of plausible alternative futures, and produce options to deal proactively with these threats and scenarios. The challenges such teams face include the need to work faster, overcome human cognitive limitations and biases when attempting to understand complicated, complex, and uncertain situations, deal with deliberate deception, create explanations and options that are persuasive for the decision maker, break down the information and procedural stovepipes that existing organizations have built, harness diversity as a tool to deal with complexity and uncertainty, and automate that which can effectively be accomplished by machines so that people have more time for analysis and thinking. Emphasis needs to be placed on ease of use, adaptation to the user who is often not a scientist or engineer, and implicit encouragement to use the tools to make the users' tasks easier." "DARPA is seeking innovative technology for automating some of the team processes; augmenting the human intellect via tools that assist teams thinking together, tools that do some of the thinking for people, and tools that support human/machine collaboration in the cognitive domain; and for providing a rich environment for collaboration across existing hierarchical organizations while maintaining the necessary accountability and control. DARPA envisions that the human teams using its system will be drawn from multiple organizations spanning state, local, and federal government. Thus, there will be the need to permit collaboration across organizational-boundaries while providing control and accountability and connection back to the central systems of each participating organization. Technology will be required to support the entire life cycle of such teams. Key challenges include knowledge management/corporate memory, declarative policy generation and context-based enforcement, business rules and self-governance, and planning and monitoring team processes." "The goals for automation technology include speeding the front-end processes of gathering, filtering, and organizing information and assimilating its content without having to read all of it. On the back-end of the process, technology is needed to automate or semi-automate the generation of efficient and persuasive explanations, and to maintain consistency within a large, distributed multi-media knowledge base. Technology is also required to make the tools and the collaborative environment itself more efficiently used by humans by making it aware of user context and preferences and smart and adaptive to optimize the user experience. DARPA seeks technology to aid the human intellect as teams collaborate to build models of existing threats, generate a rich set of threat scenarios, perform formal risk analysis, and develop options to counter them. These tools should provide structure to the collaborative cognitive work, and externalize it so that it can be examined, critiqued, used to generate narrative and multi-media explanations, and archived for re-use." Back to Cringely: How, exactly, are they going to automate the protection of our privacy? No sane person is in favor of terrorism or lawlessness. But at a time when intelligence agencies are under fire for being not very intelligent, when our leaders are sometimes in too big a hurry to cast blame and take credit, we are building huge information gathering systems that we can't completely control, we can't completely validate, that can be turned against us by our enemies, and that can ultimately be used to justify, well, anything. It might be a good idea to think twice about this before we shoot ourselves in the foot. --------------060809050303070202030703 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Government Information Awareness

<http://18.85.1.51/GIA/>

Government Information Awareness draws its inspiration from: Total Information Awareness (TIA) System

Mission
  • To empower citizens by providing a single, comprehensive, easy-to-use repository of information on individuals, organizations, and corporations related to the government of the United States of America.
  • To allow citizens to submit intelligence about government-related issues, while maintaining their anonymity. To allow members of the government a chance to participate in the process.

Shooting Ourselves in the Foot ?

Grandiose Schemes for Electronic Eavesdropping May Hurt More Than They Help
<http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20030710.html>

E.G.,

"OBJECTIVES:
(1) Development of revolutionary technology for ultra-large all-source information repositories and associated privacy protection technologies.
(2) Development of collaboration, automation, and cognitive aids technologies that allow humans and machines to think together about complicated and complex problems more efficiently and effectively.
(3) Development and implementation of an end-to-end, closed-loop prototype system to aid in countering terrorism through prevention by integrating technology and components from existing DARPA programs such as: Genoa, EELD (Evidence Extraction and Link Discovery), WAE (Wargaming the Asymmetric Environment), TIDES (Translingual Information Detection, Extraction and Summarization), HID (Human Identification at Distance), Bio-Surveillance; as well as programs resulting from the first two areas of this BAA and other programs."

"Repository Issues: The National Security Community has a need for very large scale databases covering comprehensive information about all potential terrorist threats; those who are planning, supporting or preparing to carry out such events; potential plans; and potential targets. In the context of this BAA, the term "database" is intended to convey a new kind of extremely large, omni-media, virtually-centralized, and semantically-rich information repository that is not constrained by today's limited commercial database products -- we use "database" for lack of a more descriptive term. DARPA seeks innovative technologies needed to architect, populate, and exploit such a database for combating terrorism. Key metrics include the amount of total information that is potentially covered, the utility of its data structures for data entry and use by humans and machines in searching and browsing, data integration, and capability to automatically populate, and the completeness, correctness, and timeliness of the information when used for predictive analysis and modeling in exploiting the information in these repositories. It is anticipated this will require revolutionary new technology."

"The database envisioned is of an unprecedented scale, will most likely be distributed, must be capable of being continuously updated, and must support both autonomous and semi-automated analysis. The latter requirement implies that the representation used must, to the greatest extent possible, be interpretable by both algorithms and human analysts. The database must support change detection and be able to execute automated procedures implied by new information. Because of expected growth and adaptation needs, the effective schema must be adaptable by the user so that as new sources of information, analytical methods, or representations arise, the representation of data may be re-structured without great cost. If distributed, the database may require new search methods to answer complex, less than specific queries across physical implementations and new automated methods for maintaining consistency. The reduced signature and misinformation introduced by terrorists who are attempting to hide and deceive imply that uncertainty must be represented in some way. To protect the privacy of individuals not affiliated with terrorism, DARPA seeks technologies for controlling automated search and exploitation algorithms and for purging data structures appropriately. Business rules are required to enforce security policy and views appropriate for the viewer's role."

"The potential sources of information about possible terrorist activities will include extensive existing databases. Innovative technologies are sought for treating these databases as a virtual, centralized, grand database. This will require technologies for automatically determining schemas, access methods and controls, and translation of complex English language queries into the appropriate language for the relevant databases."

"DARPA currently has on-going research programs aimed at language translation, information extraction from text, and multi-modal biometric technologies. These component technologies will be used to feed the Information Awareness database but must be augmented by other technologies and new sources of information to dramatically increase the coverage of counter-terrorism information. These other technologies include but are not limited to innovative new methods of database integration, structured information authoring, and exploitation of integrated data streams. Non-traditional methods of identifying and monitoring terrorist activity are anticipated. Populating a database with information derived from masked or deceptive behavior by an adversary is a challenging technical problem. DARPA invites new ideas for novel information sources and methods that amplify terrorist signatures and enable appropriate response."

"Collaboration, Automation And Cognitive Aids Issues: DARPA will be developing technology to support collaborative work by cross-organizational teams of intelligence and policy analysts and operators as they develop models and simulations to aid in understanding the terrorist threat, generate a complete set of plausible alternative futures, and produce options to deal proactively with these threats and scenarios. The challenges such teams face include the need to work faster, overcome human cognitive limitations and biases when attempting to understand complicated, complex, and uncertain situations, deal with deliberate deception, create explanations and options that are persuasive for the decision maker, break down the information and procedural stovepipes that existing organizations have built, harness diversity as a tool to deal with complexity and uncertainty, and automate that which can effectively be accomplished by machines so that people have more time for analysis and thinking. Emphasis needs to be placed on ease of use, adaptation to the user who is often not a scientist or engineer, and implicit encouragement to use the tools to make the users' tasks easier."

"DARPA is seeking innovative technology for automating some of the team processes; augmenting the human intellect via tools that assist teams thinking together, tools that do some of the thinking for people, and tools that support human/machine collaboration in the cognitive domain; and for providing a rich environment for collaboration across existing hierarchical organizations while maintaining the necessary accountability and control. DARPA envisions that the human teams using its system will be drawn from multiple organizations spanning state, local, and federal government. Thus, there will be the need to permit collaboration across organizational-boundaries while providing control and accountability and connection back to the central systems of each participating organization. Technology will be required to support the entire life cycle of such teams. Key challenges include knowledge management/corporate memory, declarative policy generation and context-based enforcement, business rules and self-governance, and planning and monitoring team processes."

"The goals for automation technology include speeding the front-end processes of gathering, filtering, and organizing information and assimilating its content without having to read all of it. On the back-end of the process, technology is needed to automate or semi-automate the generation of efficient and persuasive explanations, and to maintain consistency within a large, distributed multi-media knowledge base. Technology is also required to make the tools and the collaborative environment itself more efficiently used by humans by making it aware of user context and preferences and smart and adaptive to optimize the user experience. DARPA seeks technology to aid the human intellect as teams collaborate to build models of existing threats, generate a rich set of threat scenarios, perform formal risk analysis, and develop options to counter them. These tools should provide structure to the collaborative cognitive work, and externalize it so that it can be examined, critiqued, used to generate narrative and multi-media explanations, and archived for re-use."

Back to Cringely: How, exactly, are they going to automate the protection of our privacy?

No sane person is in favor of terrorism or lawlessness.  But at a time when intelligence agencies are under fire for being not very intelligent, when our leaders are sometimes in too big a hurry to cast blame and take credit, we are building huge information gathering systems that we can't completely control, we can't completely validate, that can be turned against us by our enemies, and that can ultimately be used to justify, well, anything. 

It might be a good idea to think twice about this before we shoot ourselves in the foot.

--------------060809050303070202030703-- From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Jul 14 13:29:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 4A5A557005; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:29:25 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts10.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.54]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8869356FF7 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:29:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Montreal-ppp-86788.qc.sympatico.ca ([64.228.165.119]) by tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP id <20030714205207.SAEY23576.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@Montreal-ppp-86788.qc.sympatico.ca> for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:52:07 -0400 Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Young people less impressed by lifestyle advertising From: Henry K van Eyken To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Message-Id: <1058215925.1588.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) Date: 14 Jul 2003 16:52:05 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org >From my Dutch newspaper: The younger generation is less impressed by lifestyle advertising than in the past. Accordingly, big names like Nike, Pepsi, Levi Strauss should suffer from diminishing popularity. The 10- to 18-year olds are more critical and want to know the who and what of corporations. -- Henry K van Eyken From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Jul 14 14:58:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id DA1CF57006; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 60EB756FF7 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:58:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 207-237-200-81.c3-0.23d-ubr1.nyr-23d.ny.cable.rcn.com ([207.237.200.81] helo=rcn.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 19cBgz-0000NC-00; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:21:09 -0400 Message-ID: <3F132CD1.3060804@rcn.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:21:05 -0400 From: Gary Richmond User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Young people less impressed by lifestyle advertising References: <1058215925.1588.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Henry, Dutch youth may be growing in their critical thinking, but this seems not to be happening for the most part in the USA as far as I can tell . Though at the moment I could only offer anecdotal support, I seem to remember some American studies suggesting that, generally speaking, American youth is not doing much critical thinking, not instructed in it, nor caring to do it. The reason, as I see it, is that American youth continues to be "educated" to consumerism, which includes the attitudes and politics requisite for "success" within the American economic system (increasing dominated by the values of the Republican Party, global corporations, neo-con capitalist thought, etc-- in short, the values of "the right."). But, I mean to quickly add, that I do not believe that this is just an "American problem." The deeper, shall we say, world-historic problematic, seems to be what some are calling the advance of a "global monetacracy" throughout the world, a very, very few possessing a very, very great deal of money and power. In the USA. analysis of this monetacracy this is being considered within the debate going on as to what extent the control of the mass media by huge consortiums with conservative agendas constitutes a threat to our very freedom of thought, and especially the politico-economic thought of this country. So as not to be too completely misunderstood, let me add that I fervently believe in the promise of America as a "great nation of nations", and especially of the potential of American (including immigrant) youth within this highly multi-cultural society. There may be a desire by "the powers that be" that it be "dumbed down," but there is innate intelligence everywhere to be seen in abundance in American youth.. This rich mix, which I'm particularly aware of living in New York City, may yet produce something of inestimable value in the resolution of the problematic obstructing the evolution of consciousness.. Gary . Henry K van Eyken wrote: >>From my Dutch newspaper: > >The younger generation is less impressed by lifestyle advertising than >in the past. Accordingly, big names like Nike, Pepsi, Levi Strauss >should suffer from diminishing popularity. The 10- to 18-year olds are >more critical and want to know the who and what of corporations. > > From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Jul 14 15:01:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id DBCA957006; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:01:40 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from mail2.uvt.nl (mail2.uvt.nl [137.56.0.62]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B04C557005 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:01:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prefix1 (prefix1.kub.nl [137.56.0.78]) by mail2.uvt.nl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6EMOEwt029026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:24:15 +0200 (MEST) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:24:14 +0200 (MET DST) From: Aldo de Moor X-X-Sender: ademoor@prefix1 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Young people less impressed by lifestyle advertising In-Reply-To: <1058215925.1588.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.43-uvt2 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20021116-patch-4 (http://amavis.org/) on mailone.uvt.nl Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org On 14 Jul 2003, Henry K van Eyken wrote: > >From my Dutch newspaper: > > The younger generation is less impressed by lifestyle advertising than > in the past. Accordingly, big names like Nike, Pepsi, Levi Strauss > should suffer from diminishing popularity. The 10- to 18-year olds are > more critical and want to know the who and what of corporations. I can't wait until those 18-year-olds finally show up in the classes I have to teach... :-) Aldo ========================================================================== ---/// e-mail: ademoor@uvt.nl IN|F/OLAB phone +31-13-4662914/3020, fax +31-13-4663069 |/// home page: http://infolab.uvt.nl/people/ademoor Dr. Aldo de Moor Infolab, Dept. of Information Systems and Management - Tilburg University PO Box 90153, 5000 LE Tilburg, The Netherlands ========================================================================== From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Mon Jul 14 23:13:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id E76DD57005; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:13:28 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from jas.peak.org (jas.peak.org [206.163.129.210]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6C3B556FF7 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:13:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jas.peak.org (sechrest@localhost) by jas.peak.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6F6VQQ10536 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:31:26 -0700 Message-Id: <200307150631.h6F6VQQ10536@jas.peak.org> To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Young people less impressed by lifestyle advertising In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:24:14 +0200. Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:31:25 -0700 From: John Sechrest Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org I certainly see a large amount of critical thinking coming from the 18 year olds in the classes that I have taught... So when they say critical, it may be that they just mean cynical. Which I have seen lots more of recently. Aldo de Moor writes: % % On 14 Jul 2003, Henry K van Eyken wrote: % % > >From my Dutch newspaper: % > % > The younger generation is less impressed by lifestyle advertising than % > in the past. Accordingly, big names like Nike, Pepsi, Levi Strauss % > should suffer from diminishing popularity. The 10- to 18-year olds are % > more critical and want to know the who and what of corporations. % % I can't wait until those 18-year-olds finally show up in the classes I % have to teach... :-) % % Aldo % % ========================================================================== % ---/// e-mail: ademoor@uvt.nl % IN|F/OLAB phone +31-13-4662914/3020, fax +31-13-4663069 % |/// home page: http://infolab.uvt.nl/people/ademoor % % Dr. Aldo de Moor % Infolab, Dept. of Information Systems and Management - Tilburg University % PO Box 90153, 5000 LE Tilburg, The Netherlands % ========================================================================== ----- John Sechrest . Helping people use CTO PEAK - . computers and the Internet Public Electronic . more effectively Access to Knowledge,Inc . 1600 SW Western, Suite 180 . Internet: sechrest@peak.org Corvallis Oregon 97333 . (541) 754-7325 . http://www.peak.org/~sechrest From owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Thu Jul 17 11:04:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix, from userid 2001) id 906405705D; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:04:34 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Received: from smtp02.lax.untd.com (outbound28-2.lax.untd.com [64.136.28.160]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E0B8F5700A for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:04:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 5254 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2003 18:27:19 -0000 Received: from dsc02-oav-ca-2-245.rasserver.net (HELO netzero.net) (205.184.116.245) by smtp02.lax.untd.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2003 18:27:19 -0000 Message-ID: <3F16EB9F.10203@netzero.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:31:59 -0700 From: "John J. Deneen" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] [ba-talk-unrev] Total Information Awareness (TIA) System Award Winner Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org VisuaLinks(TM) Selected As Best-of-Breed System For Large-Scale U.S. Intelligence Program POOLESVILLE, Md., Feb. 14 /PRNewswire/ -- The Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) announced that Visual Analytics, Inc. (VAI), a leading provider of advanced analytical and visualization software, has been awarded the enterprise-wide contract for the Joint Intelligence Virtual Architecture (JIVA) under the link analysis and visualization software category. The award has the potential to make VisuaLinks™ available to over twenty thousand analysts worldwide. Visual Analytics' flagship software product, VisuaLinks™ was formally compared against the leading competition and VisuaLinks™ was chosen based on its superior technical features and best overall value to meet JIVA's complex analytical requirements. * Pentagon to dig into marketing data on citizens o Visual Links o Screen Shots o Overview (Flash) o Visual Analytics strives to be in compliance with section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, as amended (29 U.S.C. 794d) From benu@fe.net Mon Jul 28 00:22:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Received: from en001-6260cb537 (unknown [210.15.187.51]) by bi0.bootstrap.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6F1D256FF5 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 00:22:38 -0700 (PDT) From: benu@fe.net To: ba-unrev-talk-list@bi0.bootstrap.org Subject: you didn't reply my email ? why ? 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