To all....
Just letting everyone know you have contributed to an interesting year, with
lots of good ideas. While it sometimes seems we take two steps back and one
forward, the effort has always been civil, constructive and useful. That is
powerful medicine for an effective community.
Talking to Doug this afternoon, he mentioned having completed a productive
speaking trip abroad, and that everyone on OHS/DKR team, near and far, is to be
congratulated for putting in a stellar effort this past year.
As we roll up our sleeves to make more headway next year, just seconding Doug's
good feeling -- happy Thanksgiving and holidays to all.
Rod
Henry K van Eyken wrote:
>
> Rod.
>
> When different people talk about whole new ways of thinking, they can mean
> vastly different things. It may be a different way of
> looking at familar things because of a new fact that came to light - or taking
> this further as the outcome of a good education.
> It may mean self-reflection caused by putting one's thoughts in writing
> (recirculating and refining one's thoughts). It may mean
> a hightened efficiency such as facilitated by your SDS. It may mean shifting
> to thinking at a higher level in a scheme like
> Bloom's taxonomy of cognition as reflected in the piece I alluded to in my
> post of Aug. 19 which is called "Fleabyte
> Fundamentals: Promoting More Meaningful Learning." I kind of see Doug's "whole
> new way of thinking as a combination of all of
> these.
>
> I noticed that I was pondering republishing that 1989 article in "Engelbart in
> Context." I was pondering that again earlier this
> morning upon reading Eugene's post in the thread, "Cascading efects?" He
> concluded,
>
> "For augmentation to happen, there is still a human learning cycle. Thanks to
> the massive amount of information currently out
> there, I can certainly learn new subjects faster than previously. However, my
> brain is still a bottleneck. It has better and
> faster access to information, but it doesn't process it any faster."
>
> Replacing the word "bottleneck" by "central nervous system," the neural
> equivalent of a computer's CPU so to speak, we may not
> do much about our personal clock speeds, but we can make better use of it by
> our choice of productivity softwares, such as
> inculcated by experience, education, training, and our choice of what aspects
> of the mind we wish to sharpen. And by the level
> of their mental sophistication by not waste time thinking neurally what can be
> done more efficiently by electrons. We may do
> well to exploit that partnership.
>
> Yes, I will go ahead and republish that 1989 article in EIC.
>
> Henry
>
> Rod Welch wrote:
>
> > Henry,
> >
> > Doug calls for a "whole new way of thinking and working," as shown in the
> record
> > on 991222....
> >
> > http://www.welchco.com/sd/08/00101/02/99/12/22/104523.HTM#3696
> >
> > SDS enables a process of thinking through writing.....
> >
> > http://www.welchco.com/03/00050/01/09/01/02/00030.HTM#3742
> >
> > ....that extends the "alphabetic mind" beyond the limitations of a purely
> prior
> > oral tradition that existed 2,000 years ago, as set out in the record on
> > 991108.....
> >
> > http://www.welchco.com/sd/08/00101/02/99/11/08/191947.HTM#L540904
> >
> > Earlier you commented favorably on the prospect that at last, there is
> progress
> > on strengthening the fundamentals of knowledge work. Naturally, a "new way
> of
> > thinking" requires moving beyond the "alphabetic mind," so this has been
> > described in the record on 001219....
> >
> > http://www.welchco.com/sd/08/00101/02/00/12/19/071408.HTM#L941148
> >
> > "Thinking about communicating," discussed in your letter on 010819, leads to
> > powerful methods for advancing civilization, but these methods require
> people to
> > use them in order to be effective. This takes leadership with a broader
> vision,
> > discussed with Stuart Harrow at DCMA on 010730.....
> >
> > http://www.welchco.com/sd/08/00101/02/01/07/30/054920.HTM#LBY0702
> >
> > ....on helping people cross the bridge to a new way of thinking and working,
> as
> > Doug calls out.
> >
> > Rod
> >
> > Henry van Eyken wrote:
> > >
> > > What a fascinating discussion.
> > >
> > > For what they are worth, I have two, apparently contradictory, comments to
> > > offer, and may add a
> > > third.
> > >
> > > 1. Steven Pinker, linguist and psychologist, now at MIT, doesn't think
> much of
> > > the Whorfian
> > > hypothesis. Writes he in his 1994 book, "The Language Instinct," that
> "there
> > > is no scientific
> > > ebidence that languages dramatically shape their speakers' ways of
> thinking."
> > > (p.58), which is
> > > called, I gather, linguistic determinism.
> > >
> > > 2. There has been around for some years a small book by Prof. Walter Ong,
> S.J.
> > > named "Orality and
> > > Literacy" (Methuen). Unfortunately, I lent it to somebody and now rely on
> poor
> > > memory. But literacy
> > > causes different habits of mind than possessed by purely oral societies.
> One
> > > may project, therefore,
> > > that technology will do so again. Subtitle of the book: "Technologizing
> the
> > > word." I have to reread
> > > the book again, but I considered it important with respect to what an
> > > on-the-person computer may do
> > > to mode of thinking. (May be different changes in mode of thinking ought
> be
> > > recognized.) I wrote an
> > > opinion piece twelve years ago for the J.Coll.Sci.Teaching on the subject.
> I
> > > have been pondering
> > > whether to reproduce it in the new e-journal because it is very much in
> the
> > > context of Engelbart's
> > > thinking. As long as opinion and scientific rigor are clearly
> distinguished.
> > >
> > > 3. (Hesitantly) I migrated from The Netherlands to Canada and, hence,
> ought to
> > > be an authority on
> > > the subject. But I am not! There is a lot of change involved in adapting
> to a
> > > different world while
> > > also gaining, like anyone else, insights when growing older. Maybe, if
> there
> > > really was a
> > > linguistically deterministic effect, it just got drowned by overwhelming
> > > experiences.
> > >
> > > Henry
> > >
> > > Jack Park wrote:
> > >
> > > > I should point out that there is a scripting language called Loglan,
> > > > usually it looks like Loglan 82 and the like at Google.
> > > > Also, there is a fork in the Loglan road called Lojban. For the time
> > > > being, I'm sticking with Loglan.
> > > >
> > > > Jack
> > > >
> > > > At 04:29 PM 8/19/2001 -0700, you wrote:
> > > > >I have 2 of the Loglan books that were available. I don't know whether
> they
> > > > >still are.
> > > > >
> > > > >One aspect of the language that intrigued me is that the dictionary
> > > consists
> > > > >of predicates, each of which takes a specified set of arguments --
> > > > >essentially subroutines or method calls.
> > > > >
> > > > >I have thought for years that such an endeavor in English would make a
> > > > >useful set of checklists for any text that had to be precise, such as
> > > > >software specifications or requirements documents.
> > > > >
> > > > >BTW, Loglan is based on a context free grammar and it is said that a
> > > > >computer programme with it is still the most 'fluent' speaker of
> Loglan.
> > > > >
> > > > >Whether Loglan istelf is worthy of adoption for precision
> communication, I
> > > > >think that many of the ideas used in it could be very useful.
> > > > >
> > > > >Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > >Garold (Gary) L. Johnson
> > > > >
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: "Jack Park" <jackpark@thinkalong.com>
> > > > >To: <unrev-II@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > >Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 3:12 PM
> > > > >Subject: [unrev-II] Thinking about communicating
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Many moons back, James Cooke Brown decided to test the central
> Whorfian
> > > > > > thesis, namely that the structure of individual languages does in
> some
> > > way
> > > > > > shape the thought of monolingual speakers of those languages. We
> might
> > > ask
> > > > > > the same question ourselves as we ponder our OHS notions.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That work began the evolution of the language Loglan
> > > > > > http://www.loglan.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From the forward to the book _Loglan 1_ which is entirely online
> in
> > > > >HTML,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "At the beginning of Christmas Holidays, 1955, I sat down before a
> > > bright
> > > > > > fire to commence what I hoped would be a short paper on the
> possibility
> > > of
> > > > > > testing the social psychological implications of the Sapir-Whorf
> > > > > > hypothesis. I meant to proceed by showing that the construction of a
> > > tiny
> > > > > > model language, with a grammar borrowed from the rules of modern
> logic,
> > > > > > taught to subjects of different nationalities in a laboratory
> setting
> > > > >under
> > > > > > conditions of control, would permit a decisive test. I have been
> writing
> > > > > > appendices for that paper ever since. I believed, once or twice,
> that I
> > > > >had
> > > > > > glimpsed the end of it; but I cannot yet be certain."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I present that quote in order to respond a priori to questions about
> > > > > > Esperanto and other invented languages (aren't all languages
> > > > > > invented?). Esperanto, for instance, is relatively easy to learn
> and
> > > use;
> > > > > > indeed there are lots of Web sites that speak Esperanto (google got
> > > > >487,000
> > > > > > hits, only 3360 for loglan!) But, Loglan appears to be different;
> it is
> > > a
> > > > > > fabrication with a scientific bent, and one that might be important
> to
> > > > > > those of us who wish to build software tools to enable enhanced
> human
> > > > > > communication and learning.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The argument can be made that English is rapidly becoming the lingua
> > > > >franca
> > > > > > of the Web, and so it may be. My thinking is that it may still be
> worth
> > > > > > taking a look at fabricated, restricted languages as a means to
> continue
> > > > > > our efforts to understand the nature of communication.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I landed on Loglan not by chance, but by way of the insight of
> Charles
> > > > > > Moore, the creator of the Forth computer programming language, a
> > > language
> > > > >I
> > > > > > have used a lot. He pointed out an article in a back issue of
> > > Scientific
> > > > > > American, and that's where I started. More recently, I have
> observed
> > > > > > discussions on the Standard Upper Ontology list about the use of
> > > > >restricted
> > > > > > natural languages as an interlingua, so long as those languages can
> be
> > > > >used
> > > > > > as a means of expressing KIF expressions (Knowledge Interchange
> Format,
> > > > > > http://logic.stanford.edu/kif/kif.html). There is a discussion on
> > > > > > "controlled natural language" by John Sowa at
> > > > > > http://users.bestweb.net/~sowa/misc/ace.htm
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mentioned there is ACE (Attempto Controlled English).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My point? Perhaps Loglan is worth looking at. Why start with
> English?
> > > Why
> > > > > > not start over with something already much closer to KIF?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > Jack
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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