Re: [unrev-II] Is "bootstrapping" part of the problem?

From: Henry van Eyken (vaneyken@sympatico.ca)
Date: Tue Jan 09 2001 - 11:56:48 PST

  • Next message: Jack Park: "[unrev-II] Open Source License revisit"

    Thanks for the "Tozer" reference, Jack. I didn't even know there was software
    for web rings and a look at it gave something to bear in mind.

    Also to bear in mind is that this forum leans heavily toward the technology side
    with only occasional attention given to the societal side. Eventually we must
    put technology in the service of society, notably global issues such as brought
    out in the Colloquium, but, sorry to say, I haven't seen sufficient rapport on
    that issue since.

    I guess the best we can do for now is to keep that option open on our website.

    Henry

    Jack Park wrote:

    > My wife's web site (http://www.internationalstafford.com) is a member of a
    > webcircle she created using www.webring.org.
    > webring.org now vectors you to http://dir.webring.yahoo.com/rw
    > Go there for instructions on automating a web ring. Unfortunately, when a
    > nice smallish web site gets bought out by the really big fish in the pond,
    > clax est. At the yahoo site, I went to the section called
    > investments-->software and got a web site that says this:
    > "ALL ABOUT MY 86 IROC-Z, THE CHANGES I'VE MADE, AND WHAT I PLAN TO DO NEXT"
    > I would really hate to think we get categorized into a group of sites like
    > that. Anybody know of any webring management software out there that could
    > be installed, say, at bootstrap.org?
    > Google found this:
    > http://www.tozer.demon.co.uk/webring/tech.html an html/javascript that runs
    > a webring.
    >
    > Jack
    >
    > From: Henry van Eyken <vaneyken@sympatico.ca>
    >
    > > Following through on your suggestion, Jack, I might as well begin to
    > collect
    > > information about sites that appear suitable candidates for a "ring." We
    > could
    > > create a page on the Bootstrap site with URLs and each one followed by a
    > > one-paragraph thumbnail of what the site is about and what oomph there is
    > behind
    > > it.
    > >
    > > One can be sure there are hundreds if not thousands of sites and, hence,
    > we
    > > shall need to classify them, etc. So as to avoid cluttering this forum and
    > the
    > > Bootstrap site, it might be best if individuals mail me suggested URLs
    > along
    > > with suitably short, but properly discriminating descriptions in plain,
    > everyday
    > > vernacular. Then, after sorting and publishing the raw list on a site, a
    > number
    > > of us may together examine the growing harvest and see how best to take it
    > from
    > > there.
    > >
    > > Henry
    > >
    > >
    > > Jack Park wrote:
    > >
    > > > Henry,
    > > >
    > > > Extremely, even passionately realistic, IMHO. For an instance (just one
    > of
    > > > many) of people doing what you suggest, consider this web site
    > > > http://www.universimmedia.com/ <http://www.universimmedia.com/>
    > > > as maintained by Bernard Vatant. All of this is certainly in keeping
    > with
    > > > Doug's vision as expressed in the Unrev-II seminars.
    > > >
    > > > What is clear to me is that it is, if nothing else, time to create (if
    > one
    > > > does not yet exist) a web ring that links all such web sites together.
    > > >
    > > > Jack
    > > >
    > > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > > From: Henry van <mailto:vaneyken@sympatico.ca> Eyken
    > > >
    > > > "John J. Deneen" wrote:
    > > >
    > > > CoDIAK connections for bootstrapping? ... Facilitated Co-Evolution
    > within
    > > > our Cyberinfrastructures .... in pursuit "As much as possible, to boost
    > > > mankind's collective capability for coping with complex, urgent
    > problems."
    > > >
    > http://www.interact.nsf.gov/cise/conferences.nsf/Pages/DF13365846765A5D85256
    > > > 9A70060AA95
    > > >
    > <http://www.interact.nsf.gov/cise/conferences.nsf/Pages/DF13365846765A5D8525
    > > > 69A70060AA95>
    > > >
    > > > May I suggest bootstrapping the development of OHS/DKR technology in
    > context
    > > > with Digital Earth (.geo) and Information-In-Place(s), along with
    > testing
    > > > knowledge management approaches by Cliff Joslyn's Global Brain, Jack
    > Park's
    > > > Ontology and Topic Maps, and Rod Welch's Schedule Diary System (SDS) for
    > a
    > > > pilot project proposed by the Western Hemisphere Knowledge Partnership
    > 21?
    > > > &c
    > > >
    > > > Yes, John, as far as I am concerned this is, in principle, an excellent
    > > > suggestion. A similar idea was taking shape in my mind when
    > experimenting
    > > > with the Fleabyte pages, see
    > http://www.fleabyte.org/archives-one_world.html
    > > > <http://www.fleabyte.org/archives-one_world.html> :
    > > >
    > > > 20 November 1999
    > > > The seventh day
    > > >
    > > > Why not spare, say once a week, a thought for the world at large? Why
    > not
    > > > periodically interrupt our immediate concerns to sacrifice a moment for
    > the
    > > > concerns of our larger community? Why not once in awhile look at the
    > whole
    > > > to better perceive our place in the larger scheme of things? &c
    > > >
    > > > You will find on our home page ( http://www.bootstrap.org
    > > > <http://www.bootstrap.org> ) a greyed-out menu item called "context."
    > It is
    > > > intended to include on our site a web magazine that puts Doug's work in
    > the
    > > > context of that by many of like mind, people who share his ultimate
    > > > objective.
    > > >
    > > > What I am dreaming of is a high-quality publication that serves as an
    > > > immediary between a literate public and those working in the wide
    > variety of
    > > > domains that recognize we have sofar only one common spaceship in this
    > > > universe and it is high time to put an end to, let's call it, "space
    > rage,"
    > > > which, like air rage should be perceived as a crime. Buckminsyter Fuller
    > > > used to call it "Spaceship Earth."
    > > >
    > > > Such a publication would be maintained by a volunteer staff of suitably
    > > > proficient people. I perceive a level of quality set by "The Economist"
    > (see
    > > > http://www.economist.com/ <http://www.economist.com/> ), but with these
    > > > differences:
    > > >
    > > > 1. The guiding theme the commonality of resources. I like here Thomas
    > > > Malony's way of putting it: "The vision is a society in which all of the
    > > > basic human needs and a fair share of human wants can be met by
    > successive
    > > > generations while maintaining a healthy, physically attractive, and
    > > > biologically productive environment." An economics of a slightly
    > different
    > > > color, so to speak.
    > > >
    > > > 2. Replacing their static archibves by a dynamic archival system, a DKR.
    > > >
    > > > 3. Put an emphasis on such a publication's experimental, evolutionary
    > > > character. In fact, I have in mind working it as a research effort in
    > > > publishing (A, B and C activities all there).
    > > >
    > > > At this point we are not short of the "right spirit," nor are we short
    > of
    > > > top-drawer starting ideas. We could start today as far as I am
    > concerned.
    > > > Unfortunately, we need the sort of structure and commitment to it that
    > > > ordinarily only money can put in place. Without that structure and
    > > > commitment we are nowhere.
    > > >
    > > > The first things I am looking for are:
    > > >
    > > > 1. Bringing our site up to a higher level of quality in sofar
    > web-publishing
    > > > standards are concerned.
    > > >
    > > > 2. Seeing the issue of "permanence" resolved, i.e. gaining an assurance
    > that
    > > > this site has a reasonably long-range future.
    > > >
    > > > 3. Attracting quality management. I am thinking of volunteers with the
    > > > required experience and vision capable of attracting journalistic talent
    > and
    > > > putting the resources we already have to best possible use.
    > > >
    > > > Am I being realistic? I can only hope so.
    > > >
    > > > Henry
    > > >
    > > >
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