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Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Connecting the Dots...

Eric Armstrong <eric.armstrong@sun.com> writes:    (01)

 % Ok. Thanks for the summary and the evaluation, Benja.    (02)

 % I guess I'm just nuts. I feel a responsibility for my
 % countrymen (and women), and I believe that the decision
 % not to act will be responsible for thousands, if not
 % hundreds of thousands, of future deaths.    (03)

 Interesting.    (04)

 Does that responsibility extend to non-countrymen(and woman)?    (05)

 Do you feel responsible for the hundreds of thousands who have died 
 because of governmental actions in the last 50 years?    (06)

 If we carpet bomb Bagdad, hundreds of thousands will die.    (07)

 Is there any responsibility for that?     (08)

 Are we saying that the life of an american is worth more than
 the life of an Iraqi?    (09)

 % I understand the positions of people who argue that acting
 % makes that even more likely. Because there we have an
 % agreement on goals, and a discussion over methods.    (010)

 % Arguments that attempt to justify it as a "cost of doing
 % business", on the other hand, well...    (011)

 We could dig into this (deep) well...    (012)

 but after all, the point of this discussion is to provide some concrete
 structure to the assertion that OHS type systems can help us
 understand complex problems.    (013)

 Ok... Here we are... We have a pile of arguments and counter arguments.    (014)

 Now what?     (015)

 Where is the pattern/methodology/tool/process that illuminates the
 conversation and helps us get to a deeper understanding of the issues?    (016)

 % Benja Fallenstein wrote:
 % > 
 % > Hi Eric--
 % > 
 % > Eric Armstrong wrote:
 % > > You've kept the structure, summarized the positions, and
 % > > retained the attributions. What conclusion did you reach?
 % > 
 % > That your argument falls short on at least three counts.
 % > 
 % > Firstly, I do not see it as likely that Hussein would sell weapons to
 % > al-Qaeda. To justify any military action, this would have to be more
 % > than just likely-- and my conclusion so far is that it is less.
 % > 
 % > Secondly, even if he did, I do not believe it is the United States' role
 % > to judge whether military action is appropriate; it's the international
 % > community's (formally, the Security Council's). I do not believe that
 % > the US have a special moral authority to do this.
 % > 
 % > Thirdly, Iraq is not the only place in the world to get dangerous
 % > weapons. What would it help to attack Iraq specifically?
 % > 
 % > (I'm not providing arguments here, just my conclusions, as the arguments
 % > are in the previous mails-- feel free to challenge!)
 % > 
 % > I also do not see evidence that Hussein still has B or C weapons to sell
 % > to al-Qaeda, but we have not discussed this yet.
 % > 
 % > - Benja
 %     (017)

John Sechrest          .         Helping people use
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1600 SW Western, Suite 180       .            Internet: sechrest@peak.org
Corvallis Oregon 97333               .                  (541) 754-7325
                                            . http://www.peak.org/~sechrest    (018)