Re: [ba-ohs-talk] Intelligence, IQ, Art, Culture Enable a Culture of Knowledge
I don't recall, Rod, but I'll have to read the stuff again for doing a write-up. (01)
But you point to an important trail. (02)
Henry (03)
Rod Welch wrote: (04)
> Henry,
>
> Thanks for the clarification. My impression is that Cici's approach to
> intelligence has powerful social implications. Does he provide an architecture
> for technology to lift the capacity to think, remember and communicate. As you
> know, POIMS posits "intelligence" as a "process," using information as input and
> knowledge as output (sort of), which provides specific targets for algorithms
> that can be programmed. Do you see anything like that in Cici's work?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Rod
>
> ***************
>
> Henry K van Eyken wrote:
> >
> > Rod.
> >
> > Just quick and dirty, subject to modulation on my part later on, the book attacks some basic
> > facts about intelligence "known to all members of the intelligence research community" such
> > as "positive manifold" of corrrelations among test scores (subjects rank roughly the same on
> > different batteries of cognitive tests) which suggests a common source of intelligence
> > underlying various intellectual efforts and that correlations exist between a statistical
> > construct known as "g" (general intelligence) and accomplishments in academe and society.
> > Furthermore that studies suggest that "g" is genetic.
> >
> > Those facts justify the use of testing as predictor of academic accomplishments and,
> > consequently, to a large degree slotting people for life. Ceci attacks especially the
> > cognitive and genetic implications of psychometrically defined "g" and suggests believers in
> > the current practice of psychometry may be putting the cart before the horse. In his words,
> > "persons with low IQ [an artifice parading as measure!] may have the cognitive architecture
> > needed to appreciate advanced mathematics, language, and science, but they lack the relevant
> > background experience [bioecology]." In other words [mine], there is more nurture going into
> > "g" than psychometrists are willing to admit. A SAT score, for example, can become an
> > intellectual prison. People are sorted like one sorts raw materials for a manufacturing
> > process - the school.
> >
> > Personally, I have been subjected to fairly severe psychological mistreatment, not
> > intentionally, just out of ignorance. (Otherwise I was well cared for.) This has ruined my
> > youth and put me intellectually behind during an important growing period. In the end, I have
> > done quite well in life (in fact, I have had three fairly satisfying careers in the
> > intellectual domain - a short one in radio, a longer one in the paper industry and
> > publishing, and a quarter of a century in education), but it has been a psychologically
> > lonely, uphill fight - lonely because of personal divergence from mainstream paradigms. (I
> > understand Doug very well when he talks about being up against paradigms.) I know myself to
> > be no exception. I imagine the problem is widespread, but not very visible because victims
> > adjust to their environments. But such a life does take its toll, on the person and, as one
> > eventually learns, even on those in his environment.
> >
> > As a teacher in an inner-city college, I was sensitive to the gap between middle-class
> > teaching staff and kids from disadvantaged backgrounds. But it was hard to verbalize this
> > effectively among colleagues because of run-of-the-mill attitudes and procedures. I should
> > think this is the basis for a lot of frustration and non-normative behavior and that much of
> > the notion of genetic inheritance should be replaced by a better understanding of cultural
> > inheritance. Unfortunately, no well-meaning treatise will substitute for experience. My worst
> > experience was a black, unmarried mother who went back to school and was in my chemistry
> > class. She had a 13-year-old daughter. I knew she was not prepared to make it in college and
> > pondered the effect of the regard the child would have for her mother. Unqualified students
> > were admitted to satisfy a government-set student-teacher ratio and the savings of teaching
> > jobs. In the balance were the good of preserving jobs (i.e. feeding mouths of staff's
> > offspring) and psychologically maming students. Preparatory courses were introduced to take
> > in the lesser prepared, but overlooked was that teachers were not prepared to conduct them.
> > Then teachers were put under pressure to make students succeed, i.e. standards were subtly
> > lowered. The pressure used was teacher evaluation questionnaires filled out by students. For
> > a story that came from this environment, see http://www.fleabyte.org/flb-6.html
> >
> > I see Ceci's work as a successor to Gould's "The Mismeasure of Man," which is a history and
> > condemnation of putting numbers to people.
> >
> > Henry
> >
> > Rod Welch wrote:
> >
> > > Henry,
> > >
> > > Some follow up on your letter dated 020212 that relates plans to review Stephen
> > > Ceci's "On Intelligence: A Bioecological Treatise on IntellectualDevelopment"
> > > (Harvard U. Press). You say that Ceci's book is "dead-on." If time permits, can
> > > you explain what Ceci says that is "dead-on" about intelligence.
> > >
> > > This group, as with many others around the world, has wrestled with the
> > > "intelligence" issue for several years, beginning with the record on 000120....
> > >
> > > http://www.welchco.com/sd/08/00101/02/00/01/20/080146.HTM#L330502
> > >
> > > ...see particularly line 330532 asking about the role of "intelligence."
> > >
> > > While intelligence is defined in POIMS.....
> > >
> > > http://www.welchco.com/03/00050/01/09/01/02/00030.HTM#0367
> > >
> > > ...there has been no other explanation advanced, and no effort to apply POIMS,
> > > with the result that there is no progress on KM.
> > >
> > > Getting a workable explanation of intelligence and other cognitive issues to
> > > guide software programming would enable advance beyond information technology to
> > > a culture of knowledge. Therefore, it would be helpful to see Cici's ideas.
> > >
> > > For perspective, many prominent writers and thinkers and countless web pages
> > > have been cited by the team, but review always seems to show there is no actual
> > > work product that demonstrates any of it is, as you say, "dead-on." Now we seem
> > > to have something concrete, so look forward to your comments.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Rod
> > >
> > > *******************
> > >
> > > Henry K van Eyken wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Rod.
> > > >
> > > > I can't very well fault you for omitting that tiny word "not" when looking back at my
> > > > own sloppy writing!
> > > >
> > > > In re KM, I am digesting "A survey of the real-time economy" in The Economist of Feb. 2,
> > > > which you will find on the net at
> > > > http://www.economist.com/surveys/displaystory.cfm?story_id=949071
> > > >
> > > > A worthwhile read, but maybe you Silican Valley guys already know all about that stuff.
> > > > It also puts things written about on on this forum in perspective. It keeps on hitting
> > > > me how truly personal computing (and with that lifelong education of the digitally
> > > > augmented kind) is treated by the industry as a whole as table scraps. Some decades ago,
> > > > we used to talk about "organization man"; before that of the "man in the grey flannel
> > > > suit." Now look at that picture of modern man in that Economist article. Pretty well
> > > > seems to sum up much of modern life: on and off the job.
> > > >
> > > > There is a small, but, to me, significant error in your page
> > > > http://www.welchco.com/sd/08/00101/02/00/11/05/140021.HTM
> > > > Not your fault, just a communication error between us. I did not take an advanced degree
> > > > in chemistry; just a bachelor's. I had diplomas and some career in chemical technology
> > > > as control chemist, resp. control engineer in the pulp and paper indusry. Then went to
> > > > Pulp & Paper Magazine of Canada. At age 40 I decided to go back to school to prepare for
> > > > teaching. Received a BSc, then a teaching diploma and an M.Ed. Spare-time studies while
> > > > teaching at an inner-city college. (I was hired as a college professor two years before
> > > > I received my B.Sc.) These data may not be significant, except that it is my overall
> > > > upbringing as a child and "educational history" that made me interested in digital
> > > > augmentation as soon as I had my first 0.25-K pocket computer. I learned the importance
> > > > of environment on educational achievement. As a teenager I was a total failure (war;
> > > > irrational home environment), but later, when serving on a radio station in Indonesia, I
> > > > borrowed books from a local High School and it took me three months spare time to get my
> > > > High School diploma (had some physics and math under the belt, though, but no biology,
> > > > history, geography, English, and some other stuff). The environment was just so
> > > > stimulating. Same later, when I compressed a five-year program into two before migrating
> > > > to Canada. My personal experience was somewhat in conflict with the way I had to view my
> > > > role as a college teacher, something hard to understand by people who have grown up
> > > > through the system, which is just about everybody. One of the books I want to review for
> > > > Fleabyte is Stephen Ceci's "On Intelligence: A Bioecological Treatise on Intellectual
> > > > Development" (Harvard U. Press). As far as I am concerned, he is dead-on.
> > > >
> > > > It is from this background that Doug resonates with me. (Being of about the same age is
> > > > also a factor.) Right now, working on Fleabyte is often quite discouraging - little
> > > > stimulation from environment - but I sort of feel that the lessons life has taught me
> > > > would go to naught if I don't give it a try. Who else is going to perceive its
> > > > significance unless I demonstrate it instead of just talk about it.
> > > >
> > > > Henry
> > > >
> > > > Rod Welch wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Henry,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for drawing attention to an error in my letter on 020209, which said that
> > > > > "...intelligence does guarantee success," since this was intended to say that
> > > > > "intelligence does not guarantee success," but merely increases the chances of
> > > > > success, since, as you know, variables that impact life exceed the capacity of
> > > > > any one faculty from guaranteeing anything, under the general rule there are no
> > > > > guarantees in human enterprise.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was a little surprised there is not more support from this venue to report, &c., &c. (05)