[ba-unrev-talk] Fwd: Re: [issues] Re: [ACC] Framing the triggering questions
Towards a humane DKR... (01)
>From: "Dr. Ely A. Dorsey" <edorsey@erols.com>
>Organization: Technology Studies for Peace and Justice Project
>
>All war is a form of fanaticism. God is the first being drafted by all sides.
>There are no good bullets or bombs. They are made to kill people. The
>purpose
>of a soldier or a cop is to protect the infrastructure of power that prevails.
>There are no good soldiers or cops. If armies were good, then after the evil
>for which the army was created was defeated there would be no need for an
>army.
>Have you seen any armies disbanded lately? Obviously armies or cops are not
>created to fight evil, they are part of an ongoing evil that powers do not
>want
>to defeat.
>
>9/11 was horrible and ugly and mean and sad. BUT so was 9/10. On 9/10 the UN
>Conference on Racism ended with every ethnic group in the world just as
>mistrustful of each other as before 9/10. The US unfortunately did not
>participate because it was afraid that it would be held accountable for its
>history of slavery. So 9/10 happened and then 9/11. 9/11 has brought tens of
>billions of dollars and cops and armies and bombs and all kinds of privacy
>violations and human rights compromises and alarmist fantasies. 9/10 has been
>ignored except that 65 million people are predicted to have HIV/Aids in
>the near
>future. { If this forecast holds, it will have more of an impact on the
>sustainability of capitalism than all the money on Wall Street. And this is
>just AIDS One, think of the sequels.} More people in Africa have died in the
>last week to problems associated with poverty, racism and western
>indifference,
>than in 9/11, Afghanistan, Pakistan and wherever else the US is fighting its
>pseudo war on terrorism.
>
>What is going on now in the US and elsewhere is very stupid. We do not
>want to
>think differently. Violence is an easier way to solve problems. And
>stupidity
>is not limited to the US, there are leaders and coalitions of idiots in every
>country of every faith of every persuasion. Someone needs to say: Stop!
>Enough! Take a Deep Breath, Breathe! Relax! Calm Down! Walk Away From
>It For
>a Minute! Easy!
>
>Where are those voices????
>
>John Collier wrote:
>
> > At 07:27 AM 11/07/02, Thommandel@aol.com wrote:
> > It occurred to me that framing the triggering question is not easy...
> >
> > A. What are the contributing factors/actions/events that led to the 911
> > explosions?
> >
> > 1. American arrogance clashed with the arrogance of Islamic fundamentalism.
> > This set the stage. Given the difference in power, it is the US
> arrogance in
> > its unilateralism (except when multilateralism is convenient) that made it
> > a specific
> > target. The Islamic fundamentalists are also unilateralists. There was a
> > certain
> > sociopathy on both sides that was increasingly intransigent (and shows
> > no signs of having diminished -- the causes are still there).
> >
> > 2. Someone in al Qaeda got a brilliant but sinister idea.
> >
> > 3. There were enough devotees well place to carry it off.
> >
> > I think that 3 is the most variable part, and is closest to a 'trigger".
> >
> > B What are the contributing factors/actions/events that led to wide
> > disagreement about God?
> >
> > I think the main contributing factor is the idea that God cares for our
> > aspirations, and not
> > for us. It comes from the false identification of ourselves with our
> > aspirations. This is the
> > root of fanaticism. I doubt that there are any events or actions of any
> > significance in this case,
> > in that all would lead to the same end within this framework.
> >
> > John
> >
> > ----------
> > Dr John Collier john.collier@kla.univie.ac.at
> > Konrad Lorenz Institute for Evolution and Cognition Research
> > Adolf Lorenz Gasse 2 +432-242-32390-19
> > A-3422 Altenberg Austria Fax: 242-32390-4
> > http://www.kli.ac.at/research.html?personal/collier (02)