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Re: [ba-unrev-talk] RE: Deschoolin Society / Creating Learning Communities

Great comments, Dennis.
My comments below.    (01)

Jack    (02)

At 12:54 PM 10/27/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Thanks for forwarding this to the list.
>I found it interesting enough to discuss it with the next person who called
>me on the phone!
>It also reminds me that Eugene had started a reading group on Ivan Illich's
>book(s) and that it disappeared.  (I am one of the culprits that didn't
>follow through.)  Maybe one step we could take would be to revive that
>activity.    (03)

I have a confession to make, one I guess I didn't have the nerve to share, 
though it's clear I should have when it happened. I proposed Illich to 
Eugene and the group. It got accepted. That was before I read him, 
following my discovery of the rich linking of Illich  into the literature 
on education reform.  My confession: I just couldn't read Illich.  Maybe 
it's his style. I don't know, but I seem to recall getting less than half 
way through the paper I proposed.  Next time, if I propose something to a 
reading group, I promise that I'll read it before proposing it.    (04)

>The Illich - Drucker (and Maslow) connection is also worth exploring.  But I
>suggest the thing to do is take another run at Illich's ideas.    (05)

These are all important.    (06)

There is a book I am (really!) reading now, and I have no reason to believe 
I will not finish it. The book is _The Moment of Complexity: Emerging 
Network Culture_ by Mark C. Taylor.  The first half of the book is largely 
about the relationships between the arts and science, quite in the same 
line of reasoning (but not style) as _Goodel Escher Bach_. The last 
sections of the book are about complexity, adaptive systems, and education. 
Since I haven't finished it (yet), don't consider it a suggestion for any 
group project.    (07)

>I want to say more.  I think it is about the language of disaffection.  I
>find that I have to restrain myself and listen for the positive aspects of
>the experiences that people describe (such as an account about studying at
>The International University in Japan) and let the generalizations about
>what's wrong with education and society and our economic modes just slip
>past while I look for the positive in what is being reported.  I find that
>it works for me if I discount the negativity and keep looking for the gems.    (08)

For more on this thread, google "Appreciative Inquiry", and visit Tom 
Munnecke's site http://www.givingspace.org, and his blog found at 
http://www.munnecke.com    (09)

>The second thing I notice is that this is a gigantic topic.  "Education" is
>not separate from civic life and the working of society and the absorbtion
>of culture.  And vice versa.  We are speaking of major disruptions to alter
>the model for schooling in our society.  People's lives (and the
>institutions of society, including economic life) are not organized for
>this.  It leaves me with a lot to ponder.    (010)

Does it have to be a revolution?
Would a mild evolutionary process serve the needs?
In terms of time scales, could that evolutionary process do what's 
necessary(?) in time?    (011)

>What is there in this to be *for*?  It is easy to be against something,
>there just isn't much power in it.  What, then, can I be *for* while I look
>at this?  I say it is for a sustainable (global) society that works for
>everyone.  Everyone.  Including our co-inhabitants of this planet, whether
>embracing our culture or another.  I am going to look deeper into this from
>that perspective.
>-- Dennis    (012)

XML Topic Maps: Creating and Using Topic Maps for the Web.
Addison-Wesley, ISBN 0-201-74960-2.    (013)

http://www.nexist.org/wiki/User0Blog    (014)