Re: [unrev-II] Is "bootstrapping" part of the problem?

From: Henry van Eyken (
Date: Sat Dec 23 2000 - 05:15:38 PST

  • Next message: Garold L. Johnson: "[unrev-II] Annotating documents"

    On human nature and values.

    Yesterday, browsing in a bookstore in far away Montreal, I came across Matt
    Ridley, "The Orgins of Virtue." (Pelican; ginal 1996). Richard Dawkins felt
    compelled to write, "If my 'Selfish Gene' were to have a volume two devoted to
    humans, 'The Origins of Virtue' is pretty much what I think it ought to look

    At any rate, I bought it in the hope that it may (eventually) help me to get
    some substance into that slippery "values" thing. Generalizing, there probably
    aare numerous sources that may help us to scaffold our dreams with realism.


    On threadmaster.

    The thread, I feared - well, still do - may collapse under its own weight. That
    would be a pity. Some contributors appear to feel the same and have made some
    effort at condensing some of the ideas presented. And thgis led me to the notion
    of persons interested in "taking charge" of a particular thread or related
    threads to function as a threadmaster. The threadmaster would organize, strip,
    encourage, seek solutions to conundrums, seek external sources o expertise,
    edit, etc. and eventually contribute a story to the Bootstrap site. That story
    would be consensual in the sense that authors in the thread are not slighted,
    that they agree to how they have been represented, etc. One might say that the
    threadmaster, in the words of a famous contributor to this forum, turns
    information into knowledge or, phrasing it along not too dissimilar a line,
    makes information into a story for a better sticking to people's mental ribs.

    Threadmasters would function one thread at a time and after completing a thread
    (perhaps serve to bring out a modified version once in awhile) take a deserved
    rest to later get fired up again and put his/her experience to bear on another

    Isn't this the sort of thing that may make good discussion forums better, more
    widely useful discussion forums?


    Jack Park wrote:

    > > > Imagine a small rural town or village, set upon a hill amid prairies and
    > > > woods. Imagine life there flowing in harmony with the earth. Imagine the
    > > > people who live there cooperating and caring about each other,
    > > > embracing a diversity of social, economic, and spiritual lifestyles and
    > > > values. Imagine all kinds of people coming there to learn and see that
    > > > there is a way for humans to do good for our planet instead of harm.
    > In a former life, I rose to the level of President of the American Wind
    > Energy Association, wrote the book _The Wind Power Book_ published by
    > Cheshire and originally distributed by Van Nostrand, and taught alternate
    > energy courses at Southern California Institute of Architecture, and Goddard
    > College.
    > In those days, it was common for folks to imagine pastoral scenes, with
    > happy children running about, and parents doing great things all in concert
    > with a strict adherence to whatever it took to avoid screwing up the
    > ecosystem. One individual suggested plowing the streets in Santa Barbara
    > and riding horses. I believe it is a common theme among humans to think
    > *back*, perhaps to the *good ol' days*, whatever those were, perhaps back
    > when life expectency was around 60 years or so.
    > Now, I'm not knocking that behavior. I did it myself; I bought some acreage
    > in the Sierras, where I still live. While living there, I have watched land
    > prices jump due to others thinking the same way. I believe I am saying that
    > these pastoral settings are going away, and fast. I am also saying that
    > this particular thread is strongly suggestive of the possibility that we are
    > about to see yet another rennaisance in 'back-to-the-land' behavior. Maybe
    > so, but, in some sense, we need to find ways to 'think out of the box', as
    > Apple would have us do. I believe that this is the purpose, maybe even
    > suggested value of OHS. In the past, our nation has solved economic problems
    > by launching wartime efforts. What are we going to do next?
    > Walking with a friend and with Mary Keeler yesterday over the hills above
    > Palo Alto, I was told that those hills were protected from development.
    > They are, but only until the will of the people (read: politicians) changes
    > the rules. For all I know, the safest way to take land out of developer's
    > inventory is to sign it over to the Audubon Society. And, maybe that won't
    > hold forever. In short, we are beginning to experience the ravages of
    > population pressures. Exponential growth, indeed!
    > I have a take on this thread, and the progenerative arguments that lead to
    > it. I believe that the thread has brought perhaps some of the clearest,
    > cleanest, most illuminated thinking of any I have seen in a long time. It
    > has been a great thread. It is my hope that it will find its voice in
    > solutions other than pastoral settings that are not likely to exist. It is
    > further my hope that this thread will find its voice in favor of giving the
    > OHS vision, indeed, Doug's vision, a fighting chance to participate in the
    > problem solving effort we must mount, and soon.
    > Jack Park
    > ============================================================================
    > This message is intended only for the use of the Addressee(s) and may
    > contain information that is PRIVILEGED and CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not
    > the intended recipient, dissemination of this communication is prohibited.
    > If you have received this communication in error, please erase all copies
    > of the message and its attachments and notify
    > immediately.
    > ============================================================================
    > Community email addresses:
    > Post message:
    > Subscribe:
    > Unsubscribe:
    > List owner:
    > Shortcut URL to this page:

    -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
    Download Net2Phone's free software to make FREE calls anywhere within
    the US from your PC now! Get great low rates on international calls!

    Community email addresses:
      Post message:
      List owner:

    Shortcut URL to this page:

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Sat Dec 23 2000 - 05:20:03 PST