Re: [unrev-II] Collaborative Discussion Tools

From: Grant Bowman (
Date: Mon Apr 16 2001 - 05:49:51 PDT

  • Next message: Dennis E. Hamilton: "RE: [unrev-II] Collaborative Discussion Tools"

    Hi Garold,

    This idea sounds great but I suspect there's simply a lack of resources
    to implement this. It's actually along the lines of what we have
    discussed in meetings with Doug for six months. Have you seen the block
    architecture diagram for a similar system on the bootstrap Wiki?

    Processing on the server is possible with full control,
    but I think most of the people with full control don't have a full
    amount of time to do this. There's a general lack of funding. Access
    would be needed not only for setup but also to hand-edit the pages that
    aren't automatically processed correctly, general changes and
    administration, etc.

    A simpler infrastructural implementation would be processing this
    somewhere else and setting up a mirror of the result to Where there's a will there's a way.

    I think I still have enough access to the servers to be of assistance
    and a simple rsync (even fetchmail over ssh) should be simple enough.
    The authors of Plink (Murray) and Purple (Eugene) would have some good
    input on this. The official webmaster and admin for are
    Henry and Shinya last I checked.


    -- Grant Bowman                                   <>

    * Garold L. Johnson <> [010416 01:28]: > I have suggested something like this before, but I didn??t get any feedback as > to why the idea isn??t feasible or wasn??t desirable. > >   > > Summary > > It is possible to improve on an email list as a collaborative discussion tool > by appropriate processing of incoming messages and some special means of > handling feature such as transclusion that HTML doesn??t normally provide. > > Nature of an egroup > > An egroup such as this is managed by an email list server that accepts incoming > messages, places them into an archive with a message number, and then sends the > message to each member of the list. > > Proposal > > The Purple and Plink processors form the basis of a reference system for > relatively static documents. By the nature of an egroup, each message is a > static document ?? it cannot be edited directly within the context of the > egroup. > > Process each message as it arrives > > If each incoming message were assigned a message number and run through Plink > to have Ids assigned before it was place into the archives and was sent to the > group, each message would arrive with the links to all of its sections already > built in for quoting and reference. > > Provide reference and transclusion > > By adding a means within an incoming message to refer to other parts of other > messages, which would get transformed into workable links by the Plink > processor, we could achieve both reference and transclusion, at least better > than we have. > > For example, if we allowed something like <ref msg=??3977?? sid=??25?? /> to > generate a reference to an SID within a message and <quote msg=??3977?? sid=?? > 25-29?? /> to generate a quote of the SID range with a reference link at the > beginning, we could have both references and transclusion within the context of > an email list. The transclusion tag could supply a list of ranges as in sid=?? > 25-29,35,37-40?? or anything else we dreamed up as useful. Perhaps we would > want to use a delimiter other than angle brackets just to minimize the hassle > of looking for the entities rather than characters in incoming messages. > > This would require running a listserver over which we had code control and > making the revised Plink processor smart enough to find and create the > references and quotes and to perform the transclusion. > > Since Plink exists and there are several listservers that are freely available, > this seems as though it might be achievable with a reasonable amount of effort. > > Some of this is dependent on whether we have enough control over the web server > for the bootstrap site to allow us to run a custom listserver. > > The result > > This would result in a discussion group that approached electronic journaling > as used in AUGMENT. > > It would certainly be a substantial improvement on what we have now and would > provide a tool with which we could experiment. > >   > > Thanks, > >   > > Garold (Gary) L. Johnson > > DYNAMIC Alternatives > >   > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > * > > Community email addresses: >   Post message: >   Subscribe: >   Unsubscribe: >   List owner: > > Shortcut URL to this page: > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

    -- -- Grant Bowman <>

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