Thanks Gil for the pointer. I find Prof. Shipman's paper: "Supporting
Incremental Formalization with the Hyper-Object Substrate" very relevant
to the OHS Launch Community efforts.
You can find more info about the OHS Launch Community at: <
http://www.eekim.com/ohs/lc/index.html >
Gil Regev wrote:
> This discussion reminds me of the paper by Shipman and Marshall
> called "Formality Considered harmful". They show how and why people
> don't take this extra step of documenting code, structuring their
> discussions with IBIS (which the explicitly name) etc. It's not a long
> paper and is easy to read. You can get it at:
> http://www.csdl.tamu.edu/~shipman/formality-paper/harmful.htmlQuote:
> "Reported experiences with mechanisms to capture design rationale --
> from
> McCall et al’s use of PHI (McCall, Schaab, Schuler, 1983) to Conklin
> and Burgess Yakemovic’s
> use of itIBIS (Conklin, Burgess Yakemovic, 1991) -- can be interpreted
> as limited successes. The
> methods resulted in long-term cost reductions, but success relied on
> social pressure, extensive
> training, or continuing human facilitation. In fact, Conklin and
> Burgess Yakemovic reported that
> they had little success in persuading other groups to use itIBIS
> outside of Burgess Yakemovic’s
> development team, and that meeting minutes had to be converted to a
> more conventional prose
> form to engage any of these outside groups.Shipman then went on and
> wrote another paper on a system they designed which helps people
> incrementally formalize:
> http://www.csdl.tamu.edu/~shipman/tois-hos.pdfShipman's home page is
> at: http://www.csdl.tamu.edu/~shipman/Gil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eugene Eric Kim [mailto:eekim@eekim.com]
> Sent: lundi, 10. septembre 2001 10:10
> To: unrev-II@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [unrev-II] Semantic Community Web Portal
>
> On Sat, 8 Sep 2001, Jack Park wrote:
>
> > I have a confession to make.
> >
> > I have a login password for Bernard's web site. I have
> yet to use
> > it. Why? Because I am lazy. It is far easier to hit
> NewMessage in Eudora
> > and type "unrev" and then ship off some gem, than it is to
> fire up my
> > browser, type in enough of a url to get the browser to
> remember where I
> > want to go, then log in, then navigate to some appropriate
> page, then offer
> > up some gem. Eric Armstrong has been right all along:
> email is easier.
>
> This is an important quandary. A little effort can result
> in an order of
> magnitude return. However, most people don't want to
> blindly expend that
> effort without knowing for sure that the returns will be
> worth it. And
> even then, most people are too lazy to expend the effort.
> Witness the
> reluctance most programmers show in documenting their code.
>
> If we can erase the need for that effort in the first place,
> then the
> problem is solved. This, however, is far easier said than
> done.
>
> > But, email is far less useful in a couple of senses: it's
> not well
> > organized (in contrast to a well-designed web site as is
> Bernard's), and it
> > tends to allow rambling, which, I think, calls for some
> structure, as for
> > example IBIS provides. But then, try to put IBIS threads
> into email and
> > you lose the structure of the discussion; web sites are
> better for
> > that. So, I conclude, email is easier and for those of us
> of the lazy
> > persuasion, better. But, I also conclude that, for
> purposes of logical
> > coherence in discussion and knowledge space, web sites,
> particularly those
> > designed as knowledge portals like Bernards, are better.
> Go figure.
>
> [...]
>
> > Were I to conjure a summary of this response, it would be:
>
> > What we need is a knowledge portal that is as convenient
> as email, and as
> > powerful as a web site.
>
> I have been experimenting with the following:
>
> 1. Use e-mail for unstructured discussion.
> 2. Have a designated group facilitator create a
> structured IBIS dialog
> map of the e-mail discussion, with links to the
> original e-mails.
> 3. Use a Wiki to collaboratively build a web site that
> integrates the
> content from both the e-mail archives and the dialog
> maps.
>
> I am convinced that this combination of tools and
> methodology greatly
> improves the collaborative process. However, in the absence
> of better
> tools, some effort must be made to conform to the
> methodology, things like
> periodically checking the dialog map and Wiki in addition to
> following the
> e-mail discussion. My challenge is convincing others that
> this effort is
> worthwhile.
>
> -Eugene
>
> --
> +=== Eugene Eric Kim ===== eekim@eekim.com =====
> http://www.eekim.com/ ===+
> | "Writer's block is a fancy term made up by whiners
> so they |
> +===== can have an excuse to drink alcohol." --Steve
> Martin ===========+
>
>
>
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2.0.0 : Mon Sep 10 2001 - 12:32:39 PDT