Re: [unrev-II] Lucid Thinking

From: Eric Armstrong (
Date: Mon Sep 24 2001 - 19:53:48 PDT

  • Next message: Stephen Danic: "Re: [unrev-II] Lucid Thinking"

    Say, yeah!-- Especially that part about having a place to argue. :__))

    It sounds to me like a combination of Traction categories and Topic
    Maps get you pretty far down the road -- but tacking on such stuff
    to a think written in Php is the problem...

    Jack Park wrote:

    > Well, it had to happen. I've been musing about implementing something
    > in
    > the Nexist theme that tries to learn as much as possible from my
    > experiences playing with Lucid Fried Eggs at
    > What follows is perhaps longish (sorry), perhaps nonlinear (not
    > sorry), and
    > nonetheless the result of a flash of insight.
    > What's fun with Lucid:
    > 1- The personal portal-like feel and user (my) experience
    > 2- The reminders of what's been recently touched -- much like a neural
    > network
    > 3- The statistics showing what's most active
    > 4- The BLOG-like interface
    > 5- The Wiki-like interface
    > What's missing with Lucid (my opinions only):
    > 1- The ability to generate varying views (explained below)
    > 2- The ability to construct threads (in a manner about which I am
    > thinking)
    > Why do I care about what's missing?
    > 1- Because I'd like to snap a topic map views (which is partially
    > available
    > by way of TouchGraph) on threads (see 2)
    > 2- Because I'd like to be able to have IBIS-like discussions going on
    > all
    > over the Lucid network, without, say, having some particular IBIS-like
    > home
    > page at the a portal such as
    > How might I go about implementing what's missing?
    > I am completely convinced that Lucid could be enhanced in the manner I
    > am
    > thinking. I would be glad to discuss such enhancements, but, I am also
    > convinced that I am not a PHP programmer; I'm inclined to roam about
    > looking for various components already existing in Java and patching
    > them
    > together. For instance, there exist a couple of open source Java Wiki
    > implementations that are, at once, simple and elegant, and capable of
    > mutating (excuse me: evolving under facilitation) in the desired
    > direction.
    > What then?
    > Each entry (as made by a user typing into the input text box) in a
    > given
    > page (Node) is, itself, an individual cell which can/should take on
    > properties not presently visible in Lucid. Consider the ability to
    > include
    > contextual links within each cell. A contextual link can be thought
    > of as
    > actually a cluster of links each associated with some context. Here
    > is
    > what I am thinking. I have often thought that the real meaning of
    > data,
    > any data, lies in that which we make of that data. It would be nice
    > to
    > have a tiny cell associated with some chunk of data (another cell)
    > that, in
    > effect, is labeled "Kilroy was here" and which, when opened, has some
    > comments by Kilroy related to Kilroy's experiences with that data.
    > Now,
    > the cell created by Kilroy is actually another cell somewhere else in
    > the
    > Lucid network. That cell would, of course, hyperlink to the cell for
    > which
    > it lends meaning.
    > Now, suppose that Kilroy was actually lending a pro or con argument
    > with
    > respect to the particular cell. And, the particular cell was, itself,
    > lending an idea, question, or argument to some other cell (to which it
    > would hyperlink). Now, all over a Lucid network, we have the basis of
    > a
    > Mapped Dialog.
    > How might such a network be organized? An easy way to imagine this is
    > that
    > Kilroy has his own Node, which, itself, is a container for as many of
    > these
    > cells as he wishes to contribute. With that arrangement, I now have
    > the
    > ability to rapidly gain a view of Kilroy's contributions. Of course,
    > I
    > don't have to organize an entire network that way. I can just let the
    > topic map engine (that, of course, is a part of the new system) pop me
    > a
    > view of Kilroy. By way of that very same topic map engine, perhaps
    > using
    > TouchGraph as a visual presentation system, I can pop a view of the
    > Mapped
    > Dialog or any part of it as well.
    > Why do all this?
    > Simply because I am looking for the fastest way to prototype a DKR
    > with
    > parts of a HyperScope included. This one seems easy. The entire
    > network
    > maintained by Lucid now is a great start at a DKR. My inclinations
    > are to
    > render it navigable in a variety of ways. I still like the "most
    > recent"
    > and "most talked about" views, and I would like the threaded views I
    > am
    > suggesting as well. With those, Lucid grows into a powerful Dialog
    > Mapping
    > tool while still maintaining its character as a public white board for
    > musings, news, and so forth. Given that, you have a much more
    > powerful way
    > to allow for spontaneous eruption of argument, and a way to focus and
    > control that argument as it progresses. Much more powerful, that is,
    > than
    > are the slashCode-like interfaces that just allow for random, though
    > potentially hierarchical organization of comments, made without regard
    > to
    > any rules of engagement.
    > Dialog Mapping, by the way, is envisioned to be implemented in two
    > different fashions: there's always the spontaneous discussions, now
    > made
    > cleaner by the linking facilities, and there's also envisioned a
    > moderated
    > (facilitated) system where someone can "own" a discussion and perform
    > some
    > amount of facilitating (censoring, classifying, etc) of contributions.
    > And, as you might guess, I'd like to experiment with a text mining
    > engine
    > on all that information that allows for the potential discovery of
    > links
    > not noticed by the humans in the loop.
    > Where might one go next?
    > This, for me, is the fun part. Imagine a Knowledge Portal that also
    > serves
    > as my own BLOG, as my own (private) email system, and as my favorite
    > place
    > to satisfy my need to argue with Eric about all sorts of things.
    > Lucid is
    > close. Now, I can imagine dropping all these email lists because they
    > will
    > all be easily available to me such that I can subscribe to headlines
    > to be
    > presented at my own "homepage" at the portal, where I would otherwise
    > deal
    > with my email, and respond to the headlines (including entering mapped
    > dialogs).
    > In the system I am envisioning here, I can imagine a strong
    > authentication
    > system that allows me to deal with my own email privately from
    > anywhere in
    > the world where web browsing is available, a personal WebLog (BLOG) in
    > which I can do the sort of musing I am presently doing, but available
    > to
    > everyone, not just those who chance to search the web
    > site,
    > and which allows for automatic linkage with the BLOGs of all the other
    > participants at this portal, regardless of their focus of interest.
    > Notice
    > how many times some of us forward interesting posts from other email
    > lists
    > to this list (and vice versa). You may not agree with me now, but I
    > tend
    > to think that email lists balkanize human experience. Recent events
    > show,
    > if as never before, that balkanized human experience means big
    > trouble.
    > The architecture I am proposing draws heavily from some truly creative
    > work, including Lucid Fried Eggs, the many Wiki implementations, email
    > as
    > we presently use it, and the many comments by Douglas Engelbart that
    > have
    > argued for the "many views" HyperScope coupled to a DKR.
    > For me, this one seems easy to prototype. I arrive with this
    > intuition by
    > way of playing with, which, in my opinion, is strongly
    > suggestive
    > that an OHS mantra should be to "implement early, revise often." I
    > don't
    > think it's nearly as easy to flash ideas like this in the absence of
    > personal experience with well-made tools.
    > There are, to be sure, many other architectures available for
    > consideration
    > and implementation.
    > Say what?
    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

    > Community email addresses:
    > Post message:
    > Subscribe:
    > Unsubscribe:
    > List owner:
    > Shortcut URL to this page:
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

    ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
    Pinpoint the right security solution for your company- Learn how to add 128- bit encryption and to authenticate your web site with VeriSign's FREE guide!

    Community email addresses:
      Post message:
      List owner:

    Shortcut URL to this page:

    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.0.0 : Mon Sep 24 2001 - 19:41:13 PDT