[unrev-II] Eugene's work Organizing the Record

From: Rod Welch (rowelch@attglobal.net)
Date: Mon Sep 17 2001 - 08:36:17 PDT

  • Next message: Simon Buckingham Shum: "Re: [unrev-II] Semantic Community Web Portal (Formality Harmful)"


    In another letter this morning, Eric was "amazed" about Rod's memory. What if
    it's not Rod's memory, but rather a technology that can leverage everyone's
    memory? Eric worries that it would be nice to have a better interface. How
    cogent and compelling is that reasoning in light of demand cited by Eric, and
    echoed by you and others, for an effective way to use the email archive

    This group has witnessed use of the archive almost daily for 18 months,
    beginning OA 991222, that demonstrates a new way of working called out by the
    group leader, Doug Engelbart.....


    Organizing the archive for this group is a small part of a much larger body of
    knowledge that is easily and daily connected into a web of intelligence called
    out by Doug. Email is a small part of the requirement for an effective knowledge
    base. It is integrated into the workflow minute by minute, hour by hour, day by
    day over months and years, as discussed with Eric on 000517 during a meeting at


    Accordingly, Eric is incorrect. The record of this group is not lost to any but
    those who refuse to see, to try, to learn.

    Eric wants a better interface. He discloses in a letter on 000503 not knowing
    how to develop support for "knowledge," but he probably knows something about
    computer interfaces. It is possible that a better interface for knowledge would
    be helpful, but nobody knows that for sure until experience is gained working
    with the process that converts information into knowledge. Once that experience
    is gained, then it is appropriate to discuss how to deliver it with a better
    interface. Eric and many others are capable of this task. So what is the real
    fear that prevents progress? It has to do with climbing mountains....


    Prattling about interface is really a concern that it takes more than 20 minutes
    to learn SDS for moving civilization forward. No interface will ever reduce the
    learning curve that takes several months and actually extend over a lifetime,
    although folks can pick up some basics in a few hours. Transitioning from IT to
    a culture of knowledge that lets everybody remember and use the archives to
    guide planning and improve performance of daily work, takes a little bit of
    commitment to improve the work, not a new interface, as discussed with DOD on


    The only missing ingredient is leadership -- the vision to see, the courage to
    act and the will to persevere. With leadership we can create a better interface
    and secure the blessings of a powerful advance that lifts civilization to new




    Eugene Eric Kim wrote:
    > On Sun, 16 Sep 2001, Eric Armstrong wrote:
    > > * There are thousands of words in the unrev archives that may
    > > never see the light of day, because its just to damn hard to
    > > find anything. This mechanism could provide the answer to
    > > that problem.
    > This was really the main reason I decided to experiment with dialog
    > mapping of e-mail in the first place. A lot of valuable information is
    > hidden in e-mail archives. Dialog mapping is an effective way of
    > converting this raw data into organizational memory.
    > The fact that dialog mapping serves as a nice way to direct discussion is
    > icing on the cake. (However, it wasn't entirely unexpected. I was
    > heavily influenced by Jeff Conklin's IBIS workshop, where Jeff made an
    > effective case for dialog mapping as a facilitation technique in
    > face-to-face meetings.)
    > > * The archives are plinked (purple numbered). But Eugene has
    > > the modified mail server to do that as messages are archived,
    > > as well as tools to plink past archives.
    > I recently founded the OHS Launch Community as a way to experiment with
    > various tools and methodologies. I'll post more about it later, as I'd
    > like it if some members of this list joined.
    > I limited my experiment to the OHS LC's mailing list rather than unrev-ii
    > for a number of reasons. First, people on this list use a variety of
    > e-mail clients, and my plinking software is very dumb. With a more
    > constrained community, I don't have to worry about people formatting their
    > e-mails in bizarre ways that render my plinking software useless.
    > > * It takes a lof of effort to build the map.
    > This is the other reason I didn't experiment with this list. Dialog
    > mapping can be hard. Simply creating a dialog map of Eric's e-mail
    > requires a considerable amount of time (although probably less than the
    > time Eric needed to construct the e-mail).
    > > * One thing the system needs to do is to post links to the
    > > summarized information. Those links would "complete the
    > > circle" -- the index has pointers into the email archive, and
    > > the messages would have responses that point to where the
    > > information is summarized. The most important result of such
    > > notification pages would be the ability to click a link to see
    > > how a discussion I have been part of was summarized -- in
    > > case I want to make changes. (Or maybe become further
    > > enlightened.)
    > Yes. It wouldn't be too difficult to hack a back-link database for links
    > between the dialog map and the e-mail archive. However, I'm starting to
    > feel the urge to stop hacking and to start building real software.
    > -Eugene
    > --
    > +=== Eugene Eric Kim ===== eekim@eekim.com ===== http://www.eekim.com/ ===+
    > | "Writer's block is a fancy term made up by whiners so they |
    > +===== can have an excuse to drink alcohol." --Steve Martin ===========+
    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
    > [Image]
    > Community email addresses:
    > Post message: unrev-II@onelist.com
    > Subscribe: unrev-II-subscribe@onelist.com
    > Unsubscribe: unrev-II-unsubscribe@onelist.com
    > List owner: unrev-II-owner@onelist.com
    > Shortcut URL to this page:
    > http://www.onelist.com/community/unrev-II
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

    ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
    Secure all your Web servers now: Get your FREE Guide and learn to: DEPLOY THE LATEST ENCRYPTION,

    Community email addresses:
      Post message: unrev-II@onelist.com
      Subscribe: unrev-II-subscribe@onelist.com
      Unsubscribe: unrev-II-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      List owner: unrev-II-owner@onelist.com

    Shortcut URL to this page:

    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.0.0 : Mon Sep 17 2001 - 12:06:49 PDT