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RE: Immutable Granular Addressability: Was: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Re:International Purple Numbering Standard?

Google presents the user with the option to look at the current version
of a page, or at the version that the indexing engine used.  Sometimes
you find some very interesting things by looking at the older version :-)    (01)

Google is great for finding things on the web (at least compared to what
came before it :-). But it's *useless* for keeping track of or summarizing
what you've found.    (02)

I'd like to see something like the Google toolbar that helps with the
problem of recording useful (re-usable! shareable!?) references to things
found on the web. I described the following extension to the folks at
Google during an interview some time ago: they thought it was technically
straightforward and 'interesting'.    (03)

	Once I've found a useful piece of information on a web page, I'd
	like to be able to select the text in question, then e.g. do a right
	mouse click and select 'create reference' from the pop-up menu.
	(Google and Kontiki have both added 'search' commands to the
	right mouse button pop-up menu.)
	The 'create reference' verb would:
		1) Save the selection, along with
		2) the URL
		3) time of capture
		4) any notes the user might want to add
		5) a snapshot of the page
	At a later time, the user would be able to examine both the
	original page from which the referenced item was extracted, and
	the current version of the page.  Without the cooperation of
	the page's owner.    (04)

If I may attempt to put this in Doug's vocabulary: I think Google is a
point tool for the "intelligence collection" portion of the knowledge
activity, but it does not connect well with the "recorded dialog" or
product" related activities.    (05)

By the way, Google has recently provided a web services interface to their
engine.  I've not looked at it closely: I wonder if their linkbase is
as part of the web service?    (06)

Cheers!    (07)

Barry Gleeson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org
[mailto:owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org]On Behalf Of Mei Lin Fung
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 1:29 AM
To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org
Subject: RE: Immutable Granular Addressability: Was: Re: [ba-unrev-talk]
Re: International Purple Numbering Standard?    (08)

Why not build on top of Google's link database (they don't call it that,
but it effectively is a db of links)?    (09)

They already cache all the pages and archives.    (010)

We need someway to have links to between the time series of snapshots.    (011)

Google's back link feature might play a role in this.    (012)

If you download the Google Tool, you'll see a command called "Page Info"
with a little " i " info sign. Pull down that menu and you'll see back
links as an option. Click on that and you can see all the pages that
link to that page.    (013)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org
[mailto:owner-ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org] On Behalf Of SAsites
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 8:38 AM
To: ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org
Subject: Immutable Granular Addressability: Was: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Re:
International Purple Numbering Standard?    (014)

> What happens when the document being referenced grows or shrinks by
> one or more array items? People's links elsewhere are now broken.
> Which is basically what you are saying with:
> > By the way, another pressing issue intimately related to this matter
> > remains unresolved is that of link integrity. i.e., how do we keep
> > to our sources from breaking if we don't control the source?
> >
> > I believe I have solved this problem and will disclose details
> I'm very curious to hear this.    (015)

(laughing) Chris, you sound as if you are a little skeptical. If anyone
I had made that statement I would be too ;) Note however that I said "I
believe I have solved..." (emphasis on I). I never said anyone else
believe me. ;))    (016)

I had a snafu with my pc this weekend. I had hoped to have this
described. I hope I don't disappoint (part of the reason for the delay),
want to formalize/clarify my thinking. But the solution is surprisingly
simple. As a matter of fact why delay...    (017)

All one need do is archive the page at the time that the link is made.
a snap shot of the page as it exists at that moment and link to the
snap shot. (Think about it for a few seconds).
---- END SOLUTION ----    (018)

http://web.archive.org is doing this now sorta, but their archive is,
according to them, about 6 months behind (I am not sure why there is
such a
lag). While I can't use their archive to link to today's NYTimes, I can
(using PurpleSlurple) link back to an archived version of Fleabyte and
quite confident that link will remain intact. <== think about that for a
minute too.    (019)

(NOTE: In the above example PS is not required because Henry had the
sense to us Eugene's Purple. But I wanted to relate something that this
group is familiar with, and besides Henry was directly responsible for
showing me the solution).    (020)

So how do we get immutable granular addressability to today's news? If
haven't figured it out already - stay tuned :)    (021)

Best regards,    (022)

Matthew A. Schneider    (023)