Re: [unrev-II] XML limits

From: Jack Park (jackpark@verticalnet.com)
Date: Tue Apr 04 2000 - 07:22:46 PDT

  • Next message: Jon Winters: "[unrev-II] Nanocompilers, Quantum Dots, and Nonlinear Optics"

    So, why not let's enumerate the problems of knowledge representation we want
    to solve, then start from there.

    Jack

    From: Eric Armstrong <eric.armstrong@eng.sun.com>

    > Paul Fernhout wrote:
    > >
    > > Eric Armstrong wrote:
    > >
    > > > I'm interesting if *any* encoding system would solve the problems
    > > > you mention.
    > >
    > > No XML-ish scheme can....
    > >
    > Ignoring XML and anything remotely like it. What would you use?
    >
    > > ...
    > > The point is to create a DKR/OHS flexible enough to deal with this
    > > issue of representations changing over time as users needs change.
    > >
    > How?
    >
    > > And to take things further, why invent XML when one could instead just
    > > use LISP to the same effect (and with less bytes)? Lisp is used all
    > > the
    > > time to define representations such as:
    > > (user
    > > (ID 100001)
    > > (name "Grampa Muenster")
    > > (address "13 Mockingbird Lane"))
    > >
    > If we're only talking about data representations, this could easily
    > be done in XML. One is not required to use DTD-validation when parsing
    > an XML structure. So one can easily add other name/value pairs, without
    > being constrained by a DTD. The only time a DTD comes into play is when
    > you *want* to enforce restrictions. And there are times when you want
    > that.
    >
    > > Lisp can easily parse this which defines a valid LISP list, and we can
    > > define LISP programs with related data that validate such
    > > representations. That is what AI programmers have been doing for
    > > decades.
    > >
    > Certainly. Validating the structure is always possible in the program,
    > with Lisp, XML, or any other data representation. DTD-validation is only
    > a convience that permits taking that burden off the programmer, when it
    > is desirable. There is also an intermediate ground. An DTD can be
    > written so that any number of pairs of name and value elements can
    > occur, so what you see is
    > <name>ID</name><value>100001</value><name>address</name>... etc.
    > The DTD can then ensure that the name/value pair restriction is never
    > violated, but the values can be anything we want. Again, validation is
    > not required, so even this restriction does not have to be enforced.
    >
    > > However, in my opinion, the investment in learning and
    > > using these other systems (Smalltalk, Lisp) is worth it.
    > >
    > No argument there. Maybe some of the flexibility you desire comes from
    > the ease of manipulation in those languages, rather than from the data
    > structures themselves?
    >
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