[unrev-II] 6/1/2000 OHS minutes

From: Yee Su Ling (yeemailbox@yahoo.com)
Date: Thu Jun 08 2000 - 10:50:37 PDT

  • Next message: Eugene Eric Kim: "[unrev-II] views for software development"

    Minutes drafted by Su-Ling and improved by Eugene:

    OHS Meeting 6/1/2000, SRI Engineering Bldg, EK255

    Present: Doug Engelbart, Marcello Hoffman, Pat Lincoln, Eugene Kim,
    Eric Armstrong, John Deneen, Warren Stringer, Joe Williams, Tom Hill
    (conference call), Mary Coppernoll, Su-Ling C. Yee.

    1) Pat and Doug related news from their Washington trip.

    Pat relayed that Werner Schaer (President, Software Productivity
    Consortium) is in favour of OHS, but SPC will not finance OHS
    development. However in line with their mission to help member
    companies, SPC will hold workshops and meetings on using OHS when it
    is ready. Doug noted that Werner is disappointed that Curt Carlson
    (CEO, SRI) is not more proactive. Pat adds that while Curt remains
    convinced of the benefit and is a strong supporter of the big vision,
    there's not been any Institute action. SRI is not a cash rich place
    right now. Curt is also not completely convinced about open source.
    Doug, on the other hand, is convinced intuitively about the importance
    of open source, but he noted that it would be nice to have facts to
    back up his intuition.

    2) Tom Hill, who cofounded EOE with Jim Spohrer, was teleconferenced
    in, and introduced himself. We promised to e-mail him information
    about the unrev-ii mailing list, so he could participate in

    3) Doug talked with Marcello (before meeting) and came up with four
    basic vectors to get off the ground:

        1. OHS is the foundation

        2. Finding an organization that will take over the organizational
        operational support. An eg of the need for that is international
        groups like the Millenium Project.

        3. Building the DKRs.

        4. A Fellows program. Inviting people -- executives, technical,
        HR, etc. -- from other countries and organizations to participate,
        where these people meet and work on a plan for an organization,
        building from their experience. Mei Lin Fung, native of
        Singapore, has spoken with Singapore government who is ready to do

    Marcello reported that his division will be spinning out from SRI and
    will probably be in a better position as a smaller organization to
    support this program. He has spoken to division head Bill Gunn about
    this, who has expressed interest, but wants to make sure the logistics
    are sorted out. Discussion follows about this: fellows have to
    support themselves, bring something to the table, that it is sure what
    they want to do is build Improvement Infrastructure, there's alignment
    and it doesn't turn out to be high-tech tourism.

    4) Doug spent a day in Washington at the Genova Project. GP is
    putting together tools and human systems aspect, providing support for
    high level decision makers, intelligence, military, policy issues.
    Doug talked with them about OHS and addressability. They might be
    able to funnel money to us without any overhead time.

    5) Pat notes that there are ways that can get funding from the
    government, model of sustainable project in SRI terms. For it, he
    needs a crisp statement of the big goal. A one paragraph statement of
    the first step in bullets and brief statements, eg. v.1 of
    OHS. Powerpoint slides are crucial for government funding.

    Eugene has taken all three summaries that have been done thus far and
    suggests we work on them to produce the statement for Pat.

    Marcello points out that in marketing, we need to target individuals,
    look for the hook.

    6) John suggests a lead: Francis Heylighen who has a cooperative
    research agreement with Xerox.

    Eugene observes that there are lots of potential collaborations but
    we're not at that stage yet. Let's email leads to the list so this
    info will be archived for when we get to that stage.

    7) Doug will do an internal seminar for VA Linux. We're currently
    trying to schedule it in three weeks. On the week of the 15th, he
    will also present at a workshop organized by SPC that's funded by

    8) Eugene proposes we move to working on Pat's needs. Because Pat had
    to leave the meeting early, Eugene proposed to table the first
    paragraph until next week, and talk about the second paragraph --
    identifying the "first step." Everyone agreed that the key to both
    paragraphs is the audience that is being targeted, which in this case
    is the government, people who may not have even heard of Doug.

    Doug suggested starting with software development documents,
    determining the multiple views we'd like to have, and
    transcoding/translating into that form. Eugene stated that central to
    doing this was coming up with an intermediate file format.

    Eric asked for a description of Augment's data structures. Doug said
    that was easily doable, and promised to put a presentation together.

    Marcello asked whether this first step could be demonstratable as
    early as possible. A demonstration would show the value of what we're
    doing, and would pique people's imaginations. Eugene added that the
    high-level use cases will outline what we want to demo.

    9) Discussion of setting up demo of Augment and what's needed for
    it. This serves two purposes: It shows the team its capabilities, and
    can be used during presentations to others. Doug agreed to set up a
    demo for next week's meeting. Eugene and Joe volunteered to help Doug
    set it up, if he needs it.

    10) More general design discussions followed. Doug emphasized the
    importance of citing e-mail, and his desire to add addressability to
    the current hypermail archive.

    11) Summary of the "first step" discussion. Warren noted the
    advantage of having programmers as target community is that we can
    attract more programmers to the project. Queries, Directed Graph,
    Versioning, organizational bodies, audience in terms of

    Eugene noted that there are two "first steps." Our own internal
    "first step" and the "first step" for Pat's audience. We can work out
    this latter paragraph next week, when Pat is back.

    Doug brought up a presentation he is doing for DARPA-funded workshop
    in two weeks. He's not completely familiar with the audience at that
    workshop, and solicited ideas for what to present to this group.

    John asked about Collab.net as a possible source of collaboration.
    Eugene reminded the group that they had met with Brian Behlendorf of
    Collab.net a few weeks ago. There's a lot of synergy, but funding is
    not likely, because Collab.net is a startup. VA Linux/SourceForge is
    a better shorter term opportunity. However, in both cases, we need to
    reach a certain stage before any group takes us seriously. It's
    important for us to achieve that stage before we can expect groups in
    general to take us seriously.

    Doug also brought up a presentation he's doing for Cadence at the end
    of the month. The company wants him to talk about this project.

    We all agreed that having demos ready as soon as possible is a good
    internal first step. Augment should serve as an initial demo, but
    Marcello noted that we need to have more visually exciting demos.
    Augment is so fast, it can be hard to follow what's going on without
    full concentration. Talked about mocking up demos, and proposed
    various ways of doing this.

    Warren proposes we have a show and tell, a presentation of what people
    in the team would like to do.

    12) Joe said that he'd put together an initial glossary, but said that
    in order to do so, he wanted the group to contribute initial terms.
    Doug said to start with XML and XML-related terms. Eugene suggested
    "transcoding" and "translating."

    Doug said that if he received a copy of the glossary early enough, he
    would suck it into Augment, and show how Augment aided the
    collaborative development of glossaries.

    Remember four years of good friends, bad clothes, explosive chemistry

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