Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Re: Corporate Morality
Wow. That has to be the worst piece of reasoning I've ever published.
I'll try again later. (01)
"I cite having a bad headache by way of mitigation, your honour." (02)
--
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Jones" <ppj@concept67.fsnet.co.uk>
To: <ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: [ba-unrev-talk] Re: Corporate Morality (03)
> I did intend 'corporate morality'.
> Certainly the herd instinct theory does seem to explain matters in that area,
> but then it fails to explain why 'democracies' have failed to bring into being
> stricter employment laws to prevent such practices - assuming the majority do
> really prevail in such societies. Does this mean that the majority actually
> enjoy inflicting this sort of psychological torture?
> That it is some sort of mass habit?
> Scary.
>
> For those wondering about the background to this discussion, we were
discussing
> the content of www.faceintel.com
>
> --
> Peter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eric Armstrong" <eric.armstrong@sun.com>
> To: "ba-unrev-talk" <ba-unrev-talk@bootstrap.org>
> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 10:36 PM
> Subject: [ba-unrev-talk] Re: Corporate Morality
>
>
> > Peter Jones wrote (offlist):
> > >
> > > I just can't understand how it is that so much immorality
> > > has been sanctioned by society.
> > >
> > I think you mean "corporate immorality", as opposed to "that
> > infernal music" and such, which is always the next generation's
> > music. (I've been on both sides of that one, now. Never thought
> > it would happen, either.)
> >
> > As for corporate immorality, I think it has a lot to do with
> > why people *will* push a button that causes someone else
> > pain, when there is someone standing there in a lab coat
> > telling them to do it.
> >
> > Then there is the "stanford jail", where they did an experiment
> > that was supposed to last a month, but ended it after less
> > than a week because all of participants (including the
> > experimenters) were shocked at how quickly they fell into
> > their roles, and how they were doing things they *never*
> > would have deemed justifiable, had they not been immersed in
> > the experience.
> >
> > In other words, we are looking at the herd instinct at work.
> >
> > Oddly enough, it is the very denial of the herd instinct in
> > our children that I suspect leads to the compelling power of
> > the herd instinct in later life.
> >
> > I favor lifestyle choices that reflect our needs as primates
> > -- especially when it comes to raising kids. So I love the
> > books that are coming out these days about letting your kids
> > sleep in the same bed with you, about holding kids close a
> > lot of the time, and taking your baby home immediately after
> > delivery, instead of having them lying around in those stupid
> > hospital cribs.
> >
> > One of things I like about it, in addition to the short term
> > happiness it provides infants (with no long term cost, as far
> > as anyone can tell), is a story I heard from someone who knew
> > a south sea islander. I was told that the person was as totally
> > confident and secure as anyone *could* be.
> >
> > Much later, I met a Maori "ski warrior", and I felt the same
> > thing from him -- confident and at home, anywhere, under any
> > circumstances.
> >
> > In the meantime, I had read a bit about south sea islands
> > culture -- a strong sense of community, to the point that a
> > child who needed anything walked up to the nearest door, and
> > whoever was inside took care of them.
> >
> > That kind of upbringing builds a sense of belonging.
> >
> > Sydney Poitier had that kind of upbringing, and he mentioned
> > on a talk show (the source of modern wisdom) that he carried
> > firewood as a child. Without that wood, there would be no
> > cooking, and no supper. So from early childhood, his life had
> > *meaning*. He did important work that was part of making a
> > life in their village.
> >
> > My personal belief is that this kind of background builds the
> > strength to stand up and walk out of such experiments. I know
> > I have that strength, because I've participated in greater
> > rebellions.
> >
> > Oddly enough, I developed it the hard way -- in completely
> > opposite fashion from the way I would *like* to see kids raised.
> > I had little closeness in my life, little opportunity to spend
> > time with other kids (with a couple of exceptions), and zero
> > discretionary capital for fashionable clothing or anything with
> > which to make an impression -- so I learned to be a totally
> > independent thinker. It holds me back in a lot of ways. Learning
> > to be diplomatic has been difficult, and being a "team player" in
> > a business sense has been close to impossible. When things are
> > stupid I tend to say so -- repeatedly.
> >
> > So I can tell you that "making waves" is in general no
> > path to corporate advancement! For all the world celebrates
> > loners, the world is simply not structured to reward them.
> >
> > In a business setting, then, folks willing to conform rise to
> > the top, and make decisions. Independent thinkers, creative as
> > we may be, don't. So the herd instinct may very well be
> > responsible for the worst we see in corporations.
> >
> > The two ways to attack that problem, as far as I can see, are
> > to devalue the corporation, making it incindental to one's life,
> > rather than a requirement for it, and to nurture children in a
> > way creates the inner security necessary to think and act
> > independently, while at the same creating the capacity to live
> > and work with others closely.
> >
>
> (04)