Re: [unrev-II] Ray Ozzie's Groove software

From: Paul Fernhout (
Date: Wed Oct 25 2000 - 07:05:26 PDT

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    Paul Fernhout wrote:
    > Boast: For 0.1% of that cost ($60,000)
    > using Squeak I could outclass it in one year with an open system.

    Let me revise my boast if I may. The hardest part of a peer-to-peer
    system to implement is the comprehensive end-to-end security, and Groove
    claims to have done that well and transparently. I think that is their
    most significant achievement, and on reflection I can't guarantee I
    could do that by myself in a short time frame. I could imagine that
    taking much more work and the participation of several knowledgeable
    security people. However, I still feel Squeak together with the Pointrel
    Data Repository System gives me pretty much everything else to be as
    good or better than Groove -- platform independence, integrated
    development tools, networking support, and an integrated knowledgebase.
    The issue is mainly putting the pieces together well as an extensible
    end-user application / environment and dealing with some of Squeak's

    So, my revised boast (less time, less deliverable): for 0.1% of the $60M
    investment in Groove ($60,000) using Squeak and the Pointrel Data
    Repository System I could outclass Groove in six months with an open
    system that is not as secure end-to-end. That is less time than one year
    because I would drop the pretense of security beyond passwords and
    perhaps some weak in-transit encryption (and not encrypt the hard disk
    contents). However, I think such a system would be adequate for most
    needs as it would provide security equal to or greater than the level we
    are used to now with email, and would provide a far higher level of
    integration for group knowledge management.

    -Paul Fernhout
    Kurtz-Fernhout Software
    Developers of custom software and educational simulations
    Creators of the Garden with Insight(TM) garden simulator

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