RE: [unrev-II] Ray Ozzie's Groove software

From: Gil Regev (
Date: Wed Oct 25 2000 - 10:03:02 PDT

  • Next message: Paul Fernhout: "Re: [unrev-II] Mitre's Collaborative Virtual Workspace goes OSS"

    I guess the problem I have with Ozzie's description is to know what he means
    by a shared space. If I understand the architectural snag discussion right,
    I can rephrase the question as how to best support collaborative creation of
    knowledge which is what a shared space should support, in my view. I don't
    believe that Groove supports that right now since it seems to be, as Paul
    said, a P2P Notes. This makes it a discussion space not a collaborative
    shared space.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Paul Fernhout []
      Sent: mercredi, 25. octobre 2000 16:05
      Subject: Re: [unrev-II] Ray Ozzie's Groove software

      Paul Fernhout wrote:
    > Boast: For 0.1% of that cost ($60,000)
    > using Squeak I could outclass it in one year with an open system.

      Let me revise my boast if I may. The hardest part of a peer-to-peer
      system to implement is the comprehensive end-to-end security, and Groove
      claims to have done that well and transparently. I think that is their
      most significant achievement, and on reflection I can't guarantee I
      could do that by myself in a short time frame. I could imagine that
      taking much more work and the participation of several knowledgeable
      security people. However, I still feel Squeak together with the Pointrel
      Data Repository System gives me pretty much everything else to be as
      good or better than Groove -- platform independence, integrated
      development tools, networking support, and an integrated knowledgebase.
      The issue is mainly putting the pieces together well as an extensible
      end-user application / environment and dealing with some of Squeak's

      So, my revised boast (less time, less deliverable): for 0.1% of the $60M
      investment in Groove ($60,000) using Squeak and the Pointrel Data
      Repository System I could outclass Groove in six months with an open
      system that is not as secure end-to-end. That is less time than one year
      because I would drop the pretense of security beyond passwords and
      perhaps some weak in-transit encryption (and not encrypt the hard disk
      contents). However, I think such a system would be adequate for most
      needs as it would provide security equal to or greater than the level we
      are used to now with email, and would provide a far higher level of
      integration for group knowledge management.

      -Paul Fernhout
      Kurtz-Fernhout Software
      Developers of custom software and educational simulations
      Creators of the Garden with Insight(TM) garden simulator

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