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Henry,    (01)

I am sorry if you consider this flaming, but I am right now very 
disappointed to the US administration, most of the US people and the 
discussion on this mailing list.    (02)

However, I'll try to be analytical and present reasonable arguments.    (03)

Henry K van Eyken wrote:
> This discussion group and some associated groups are about complex
> problems people everywhere face and about the potential of digital tools
> to help them arrive at better decision-making.    (04)

For me it sounds a little technological determinist to study the 
potential of digital tools to achieve better decision making when it 
seems that the majority of US people are lacking such a basic cultural 
features of humanity as respect of human rights, sense of justice, 
compassion and solidarity.    (05)

For me on these topics there is not much to argue about or need of 
decision making. Just a check of the UN declaration of Human Rights is 
enough. And this is not dogmatic argument. In the history of humankind 
and international community some issues just have been already 
considered to be "right". Also the decisions are already made and most 
of the countries are committed on them.    (06)

> I think that what I did - tried to do - is to look at some of the
> arguments made in favor of it. I have taken exception with some of those
> arguments ("helping" the people of Iraq; the link with Al Qaeda) and I
> have added some arguments not publicly used by those with a pro-war
> stance in the U.S. and the U.K. (that not acting now may cause us to
> have to cope with a number of rogue regimes simultaneously; the passing
> of the baton to ever more dangerous people (cf.
> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/news/2003/03/24/son_of_saddam/)    (07)

The lack of sense of justice is expressed when you think that US have 
the right to decide who holds the "batons" in other countries.    (08)

The justification that the regime is not democratically elected and the 
"people" of the foreign country will survive is very weak when there is 
very little evidence that this would not be the case in US, too.    (09)

The lack of democracy in US is demonstrated in the very low turnout of 
voters (less than 50%) based on the need to registered to vote and in 
the very corrupted two party system where both parties receive billions 
of financial assistance from corporations.    (010)

Also, in a country where about 10 000 people are murder every year with 
handguns and half of them are children (please, correct me if I am using 
old statistics), and where the justice is considered to happen with 
death penalty, one could claim with good reason that the people are 
"suffering".    (011)

What I am trying to point out is that with exactly the same reasoning 
the Iraq regime could attack to USA and try to "help" and free the 
people of US.    (012)

Still both, the Iraq and the USA are internationally recognized 
countries and members of the United Nations.    (013)

Like stated already earlier in this mailing list, international surveys 
show that people around the world feel that the most dangerous country 
in the world is the US (84%, followed by Iraq 8% and Korea 7%). Have you 
ever thought why is it so?    (014)

	- Teemu    (015)

Teemu Leinonen
Office: + 358 9 756 30 296
GSM: +358 50 351 6796
Media Lab, UIAH Helsinki
Future Learning Environment 3
http://fle3.uiah.fi    (016)